5x16 The Incident Parts 1 & 2: Ginger Ale Talk

More than two weeks late but better late than never :) So much happened in the two hour season finale, that it would take far too long (because we're lazy like that) to cover it all in this entry. But for the record, we loved it and texted throughout the entire thing. Now, on to our analysis ..

We finally meet Jacob.. and some other guy

SUSAN: Lost!
RACHEL: I'm glad you brought that up because I've been dying to talk to someone about the finale. Namely you.
SUSAN: Woo!! I haven't said a word about it since I saw it and it was SO good!
RACHEL: It was!! Where to start? Because we should definitely update our blog with this last ginger ale talk until next season.
SUSAN: Jacob? So, he's looking at the Black Rock in the beginning right?
RACHEL: Right, and according to Unnamed Guy (who will be referred to as UG from this point on), it seems that Jacob brought that ship to the island somehow.
SUSAN: And it was implied this has happened before. So, the island is in a time loop?
RACHEL: I don't think a time loop per se, though definitely a loop. I think the implication was that Jacob has brought people to the island before in the hopes that they can do good or at the very least, live in peace. Whereas UG said that it's always the same cycle of people coming to island, becoming corrupt, causing destruction. To me, it was very "good vs.. evil" and "free will vs.. fate".
SUSAN: True. I got the "good vs. evil" vibe as well. Also I need to take a moment and gloat, because Locke really is dead and I think UG is the smoke monster. Therefore, Locke is the smoke monster.
RACHEL: As in Evil-Locke being the Smoke Monster and Dead-Locke is the real Locke right? So you think the UG is also Christian, Walt, Smoke Monster, etc.. and falsely speaking in Jacob's name so he could manipulate real Locke and eventually take over his body, just to find a way to kill the real Jacob?
SUSAN: Yes, so it's like "God vs. the devil" and the devil keeps throwing out these temptations. Now I think it's on us to figure out which events were Jacob steering them and which were the devil guy.
RACHEL: True. Did you get the feeling that in the end, Jacob was almost sacrificing himself? Like he knew that might happen (Ben stabbing him).
SUSAN: Yeah, he definitely didn't seem surprised.
RACHEL: Because if we're to go along with the Biblical theme, in a way, maybe he was sacrificing himself in order to give the Losties a second chance. I don't know why them specifically though. Or to give the Losties he touched a second chance? Or to prove his theory correct, that people don't always cause destruction? I do think that Jacob touching each of the Losties will be important somehow.
SUSAN: So how would Jacob sacrificing himself reset things?
RACHEL: That is a very good question lol. Or remember that Chronicles of Narnia connection from a while back? There was a character called Aslan who was sort of a god-like figure. He willing allowed himself to be killed/sacrificed in the place of someone else. But because he died for someone else's sin, he came back to life.
SUSAN: Hmmm, speaking of dying for someone else - what about killing for someone else? What was all that business about a loophole?
RACHEL: Well in the beginning, UG said that one day he would find a loophole to kill Jacob since he couldn't do it himself. Which made me think of two things: (1) how Widmore and Ben had these rules and seemingly couldn't kill each other, and (2) does that mean UG has been orchestrating everything (like since Flight815 crashed or maybe even before that) just to kill Jacob?
SUSAN: But Jacob had visitied all those people?
RACHEL: I don't think so. I think just the ones showed in the finale - Jack, Kate, Jin, Sun, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid and Locke.

4-Toed Status & the Cabin

RACHEL: You know what I found a little strange - EvilLocke was surprised to find out that Jacob lived in the 4-toed statue. But since EvilLocke is really UG, shouldn't he have known that already based on the beginning of the episode? It seemed like they were both living and co-existing on the island for a very long time.
SUSAN: well, maybe after evil guy stole the cabin he didn't know where Jacob went.
RACHEL: True but that seems like an obvious place to check. Also, do you think the person who said "help me" to Locke in the cabin was even Jacob? Maybe it was UG trying to manipulate Locke.
SUSAN: Wow, good point. You know, I kind of think it was a trapped soul. I'm really giving UG devil qualities. So he (via smoke monster?) captures souls and keeps them with him.

More on Jacob

RACHEL: You know what else is interesting though, of the people Jacob visited and touched - Hurley and Sayid were post-crash whereas everyone else was pre-crash.
SUSAN: What would make them different? I just had a thought - what if when Ben was dying, and Richard took him in and said he'd always be "one of us". What if that was part of the loophole?
RACHEL: Like one of their people had to be the one to kill Jacob?
SUSAN: Yes.
RACHEL: That's a good point. That sort of coincides with something I read on Doc Jensen's recap. This whole time we were thinking Locke was Jacob's chosen leader and Ben was temporary but maybe it's actually the opposite. It does make sense for "one of them" to be the leader and Jacob's chosen leader.
SUSAN: True, but why then did Jacob bring Locke back to life?
RACHEL: After his father pushed him out of the building? Same reason he came to see the other Losties? Except we don't know what that reason is yet. Maybe he had or has a purpose for each of them.
SUSAN: Maybe. Which side do you think Eloise is on?
RACHEL: I want to say Jacob's side. What do you think?
SUSAN: Um, I can't decide if she's her own side. Like.. she's on this vendetta to make things right so her son lives.
RACHEL: That's possible but when she had the chance to change things, she didn't. She still prepped him for his fate and sent him on his way. Unless she hoped he would change things. Oh! I had a thought. What if the leaders of the Others are the constants. People like Ben, Widmore, Eloise. But anyone else, like Faraday and the Losties are the ones who are the variables and could change things. And maybe that's why Jacob visited the Losties? He's counting on them to change what happened. The Others/Hostiles seem bound by so many rules whereas "outsiders" are not or don't seem to be.
SUSAN: oOo.

Was it a reset?

SUSAN:How about a moment for Juliet and Sawyer? So, assuming its a reset, do you think they find each other again?
RACHEL: That was so sad! And, I hope so! I guess it also depends if they keep the memories of what happened already or not.
SUSAN: My assumption is no.
RACHEL: My assumption would be no too. But Doc Jensen had this interesting idea. Like what if the people Jacob touched.. what if those people specifically get to keep their memories.
SUSAN: Somewhat off the point but I need to ask - Sayid's wife. Did she always die like that? Didn't she get shot?
RACHEL: I think they did say she was hit by a car so it would seem like an accident but Ben is the one who tells Sayid it was on purpose.
SUSAN: Ohhh. I would be kind of disappointed if they kept their memories.
RACHEL: I think I could be okay with it if it was explained well or if there was a good reason for it.
SUSAN: So I guess that we'd be face with what was fate and what was free will. I mean if Sawyer and Juliet come together again, that's a big play for fate right?
RACHEL: I think so but if everything is reset, then he lands in LA and she's still on the island? Or is she never taken to the island?
SUSAN: Hmm, she wouldn't be right? Although, what I took from the eye [in the commercial] was that they're back to AFTER the [Oceanic] crash.
RACHEL: Yeah that's what it seemed like to me, that they were back on the island.
SUSAN: Also I was just thinking about how Michael couldn't kill himself. Do you think that's why the bomb didn't go off right away?
RACHEL: That other things needed to happen first before the bomb went off? That is true. So does that mean that certain things couldn't be changed? Like Pierre Chang always had to lose his hand/arm, Phil always died, and Radzinsky always got away.

Final comments
RACHEL: Woah - off topic but reading this blog and a really good point was made: "Frequent reader and comment friend Hillary makes an astute observation - that even if the detonation of Jughead results in Jack and co. back on Flight 815, that plane was off course by a thousand miles. It isn't certain that this flight would indeed get to Los Angeles as intended."
SUSAN: Excellent point.
RACHEL: Maybe that's where "fate vs. free will" plays in. That maybe no matter what they do, they always crash on the island.
SUSAN: Except they still have the Walt issue.
RACHEL: Well let's say they crash anyways on the same island. How they crash will be different assuming that the hatch is never built now. Then their reason for crashing has nothing to do with Desmond not pushing the button. Which means the circumstances of their crash are different. So maybe the plane doesn't split in half, more/different people die or survive, etc.
SUSAN: So we never find out why Walt is special? That will bother me a lot. Remember in the first season "Miss Q" said they thought Walt was special, "appearing at random times".
RACHEL: And for some reason, birds died around Walt a lot.
SUSAN: That has to be addressed or else it's a HUGE hole in the story.
RACHEL: True. Especially if UG did want Walt to come back with the rest of the Oceanic 6 and assuming Christian was/is UG.
SUSAN: It's weird, I feel clueless. I was so sure of what was going on until the finale.
RACHEL: I know, I definitely feel more clueless than usual. They opened up a lot of new possibilities with the finale.
SUSAN: I wonder what happens with Desmond. There's so many questions!
RACHEL: Speaking of Desmond, I thought he'd be a part of the finale somehow.
SUSAN: Me too. Maybe we're meant to believe he's genuinely not going back.
RACHEL: Wait! But if there's a reset and we're taken back to "season 1", then he's still on the island right? Or not, because there's no button to push?
SUSAN: If there's no button to push is he stranded there alone?
RACHEL: I would assume so, unless the Others take him in.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x15 Follow the Leader: Ginger Ale Talk

Richard Alpert let-down, Destiny and Jacob

SUSAN: Happy Lost discussion day! I have to admit, right away, I thought it was a meh episode.
RACHEL: Really? I thought it was good. Granted, not as many jaw-dropping moments but I think it's because we're being set up for the season finale next week.
SUSAN: Yeah, I guess the set up episodes never go well with me, I'm always waiting for something more. But I felt let down because they were hinting at giving us some good Richard Alpert background and then.. didn't.
RACHEL: Agreed. I wanted to hear him say something or get some sort of reveal on his character. But I think the only semi-reveal we got was that he doesn't know as much about the island as we previously thought.
SUSAN: Exactly, which I felt sad about, because his character has been a little reduced then.
RACHEL: It sort of got me thinking though. You know how this whole time we were under the impression that someone (ie. Jacob) told Richard who the next leader should be? Namely Locke. But now it seems that Locke set himself up to be the leader. He's the one who told Richard in the past that he's their future leader, he told him what hospital to find him at when he's born, and he told Richard to tell Past-Locke to die and bring back everyone. Locke pretty much created his.. life? Timeline?
SUSAN: I think we've theorized this before and yes, I agree, I think they're creating their own futures right now.
RACHEL: I think so too. But does that mean they're in this time loop until something different happens?
SUSAN: Well.. is it a loop? I mean, their individual timelines are still running. They will age and die.
RACHEL: I guess I'm just questioning if it's a loop because we keep seeing things happen again. That Richard/Locke scene, Jack telling Eloise she can change things and her shooting her son would never happen even though it's already happen twice (?) before.
SUSAN: I guess what I mean to say is no one is getting stuck in the loop. Everyone is continuing their timeline as relative to their own life. It's not like groundhog day, where the guy repeats the same day over and over. Each person experiences the event only once in their own timeline. Why do you think Richard is so confused about time travel? That really got me about last night's episode. At this point he's seen time travelers come and go a couple times, and he's been on the island for a loooong time. Is he just pretending not to know anything?
RACHEL: He seems to look at the island from this mystical standpoint almost. There's something very ancient about Richard. Whereas the Dharma Initiative was studying the island from a scientific point of view and trying to harness the energy somehow. Maybe Richard knows the island is special but doesn't know the extent of it because he/the Others just follow Jacob.
SUSAN: Wouldn't he have learned something in all the time he's been following Jacob? I mean, maybe he doesn't know everything in 1977, but he was STILL acting clueless in 2007.
RACHEL: Do you think he's just acting clueless?
SUSAN: I haven't decided. I'm still not convinced he's human, of course.
RACHEL: There was something about the way Ben said for a very very long time and that he's kind of an adviser. What does that all mean. Can Richard even see Jacob?
SUSAN: I'm under the impression no one has ever seen Jacob.
RACHEL: Which makes you wonder - why do they all follow him?

Who are the Hostiles?

SUSAN: I'm not sure we've ever addressed this but who, exactly, are the Hostiles? I mean, I know later they recruit people, like Juliet. But who are the people living in those tents? Where do they come from? Are they able to leave the island before having access to the Dharma camp and sub?
RACHEL: It doesn't seem like it. The Hostiles seem to have been born and raised on the island. But aside from that, I've got nothing.
SUSAN: Which means Eloise and Widmore were born on the island? Maybe we've got this whole "What lies in the shadow..." group wrong. Maybe they are the rightful descendants, maybe they belong on the island. Sort of a religious claim on territory.
RACHEL: So a group that's completely new and separate from the Hostiles, Losties and Dharma?
SUSAN: Um, well I guess no, because they'd descend from the Hostiles. Okay wait.. I was on to something, I'm gonna figure this out. I think, what I'm picturing is Native American vs. settlers style. So the Hostiles are like the Native Americans, and they have a lifestyle that preserves their habitat. Then Dharma comes in and settles the area and there is a war. But, like with most wars, it causes some mingling of the cultures and destruction of old ways of doing things. The natives take on a leader from a different culture. Some people, the Purists, take offense and leave (maybe the statue people?) and some stay (the Hostiles/fake Dharma). So the Purists still hope for a return to their natural culture, so they raise their children to understand and follow their belief system, so they may one day return to the island and fight the war their parents no longer can. A little too far out there huh?
RACHEL: Actually - I was thinking that makes sense haha. Because all these people who want the island, it's this obsessive need to be there and/or own it. Why wouldn't these Purists raise their children to later take it back?

Jacob vs. the Island vs. Smokey

SUSAN: What I still can't figure out is how Jacob fits into it, if at all.
RACHEL: Yes! I don't know about you but I thought that Jacob and the island were synonymous. But now they seem separate. Like the "island" is communicating to John what it wants and that seems to include killing Jacob.
SUSAN: Which also begs the question, whose side is Smokey on? Because Smokey told Ben to follow Locke, which implies Smokey works for the island. But Christian has also been a manifestation of Smokey and he seems to have a strong association with Jacob.
RACHEL: Unless.. Jacob isn't real? Maybe Locke is going to kill the illusion of him, not physically kill him.
SUSAN: I was thinking that too! But then, what is the purpose of the cabin?
RACHEL: It could be just a front - a way to prove that Jacob is real to the non-believers.
SUSAN: But who puts up the front? The cabin has to be Smokey right?
RACHEL: It would seem that way. But does that also mean that Horace never actually built a cabin? Woah I just read an interesting theory. Based on what we just theorized that the island told Locke to kill Jacob - this theory is saying that maybe Jacob does speak for the island and he actually wants Locke to end his life.
SUSAN: oOo because he said "help me."
RACHEL: Right - so this person is saying, maybe Jacob has been trapped by the island and forced to fulfill a role that he cannot escape from. So the only way out of his "contract" with the island is by dying. Therefore, Locke's role isn't to be the next Ben or even leader of the Others - maybe he's going to be the next Jacob. Like by killing him, he takes his place.
SUSAN: So what does Jacob do then? What is his function on the island that he needs to be replaced?
RACHEL: It seems like Jacob's function is to speak for the island.
SUSAN: Do you think this could go back to some of the Egyptian lore we studied a while back? Remember when people died their spirits separated from their bodies, they were judged, and if they were deemed worthy the spirit rejoined the body and they were godlike. What if Jacob needs to die in order to be judged and get to a new form. Similar to the way Locke died and came back to life.
RACHEL: Good point, because Ben killed Locke and look at him now.
SUSAN: So Locke has good intentions for his killing, but Ben didn't. Ben is apparently quite terrified.
RACHEL: But why is he terrified?
SUSAN: Maybe bringing Locke back to life was the island's way of telling Ben he no longer had a say in anything.
RACHEL: True. Maybe Ben always saw his life and future as being the leader of the Others but now he clearly sees that won't happen anymore.
SUSAN: oOo - or, what if Ben, from his studies, knows all the Egyptian history we learned? And knows that now Locke maybe be remarkably powerful.
RACHEL: Or that. I think Ben and Alpert can already see that Locke is different and more powerful. So you think that despite the new change in Locke - he's ultimately a good guy?
SUSAN: Well, my brother was noting the camera shifts (that article we read a couple weeks ago, about the types of shots and what they meant) and the good camera shift (was it left to right? or right to left?) was always on Ben, and the bad camera shift was always on Locke.
RACHEL: Really? That's interesting.. what if the island is evil?

(Im)possible ending

SUSAN: Could be. I just had a thought. If Faraday's plan is followed properly, and works, then the Oceanic flight will never crash, and Claire will make it to CA with Aaron. And Kate's reason for coming to the island was to find Claire. So in her short stint on the 1977 island has she now decided getting Claire back with Aaron is not as important as her own memories? And doesn't that contradict the motherly, selfless Kate who was presented to us only a few episodes ago? I'm not sure if we're meant to come away with that but I can't help thinking she's a bit selfish here.
RACHEL: I didn't think of it that way but I agree that she is a bit selfish here (and most of the time). It's probably because out of everyone, she has the bleakest future if they did land in LA since she'd be on her way to jail.
SUSAN: The more I think about it, the more I think how impossible that ending is. You'd have to have the whole original cast, including Walt. Who, considering how different he looks now, may as well be a 7 ft white man when they film the finale.
RACHEL: LOL, this is a good point.
SUSAN: I kind of feel like they're not changing anything. I agree with Faraday, the only person that could change things was Desmond. Didn't he not listen to Eloise, way back?
RACHEL: I think there have been a few times already when Desmond hasn't listened to Eloise. She said pushing the button was the most important thing he'll ever do. So he stops pushing it and the hatch blew up. Then she said the island wasn't done with him and he needed to go back, but he didn't.
SUSAN: What about when he was buying the ring for Penny?
RACHEL: She said not to but he did anyway, right?
SUSAN: I think so. I can't remember well enough but I think the very fact that Desmond is with Penny is changing things.
RACHEL: I think so too. I hope he plays a part in the finale somehow.
SUSAN: He has to, right? Or are we done with him.
RACHEL: I don't think we are.

The start of war

SUSAN: My friend just mentioned all the bloody faces last night. Do you think that was our signal that the war had started?
RACHEL: I don't think the war that Widmore alluded to has start. But Past-Widmore did ask, why has the Dharma Initiative declared war on them, which I think always happened. Maybe that's how the incident happens. Like in the middle of their drilling, the Hostiles attack the Dharma Initiative which then throws off their drilling and they drill into something they shouldn't have.
SUSAN: Definitely. I could see that.

Love is complicated

SUSAN: Hey, btw - where is Jin?
RACHEL: He's with Hurley and Miles.
SUSAN: Oh right, he had like...two lines last night.
RACHEL: I know! Grrr.
SUSAN: I almost forgot he was there. Has he given up his "Hey everyone, we need to go find my wife" mission?
RACHEL: I don't think so but he probably needs to concentrate on at least staying alive.
SUSAN: Logic has no place in love!
RACHEL: Speaking of love, did you find Richard's comment about Eloise and Widmore strange? Because you know how we weren't 100% sure about Widmore really being the father. I think yesterday confirmed that he was.
SUSAN: But what complicates their love?
RACHEL: I'm thinking power because right now, they're both the leaders with Alpert as their advisor. I wonder if that's normal to have 2 leaders at once. Maybe it's a special case for them since they're together.

Recreating Past Events

SUSAN: So I had a good Lost thought. Eloise told them to recreate the Oceanic crash as best they could, so they got on a plane and it crash/landed. What if Desmond's boat was meant to be a recreation of the Black Rock?
RACHEL: That's possible. Do you think that recreating past occurrences is always the way you get back to the island? I thought that maybe it was just a special case for the Oceanic 6.
SUSAN: oOo, that's a good thought. Maybe it's a way of edging in on the time loop.
RACHEL: You know how Richard Alpert said he watched the Losties die in 1977. What did you think of that? Think it's true or that he's lying.
SUSAN: I think the bomb blows and he assumes death. Also I'm convinced Kate must die this season, maybe that's wishful thinking.
RACHEL: Well supposedly there's a major character death coming.
SUSAN: I think they've built it so one of the girls has to go and I want to believe it's Kate. SO badly. Although it would be ironic and more Lost-ish if it were Juliet. I'm starting to think that's true Lost style. She'd do anything to get off the island, stays behind, gets her shot FINALLY but dies. Kate dying would be...in a way...getting what she wants, because she doesn't want to go back and Losties NEVER get what they want.
RACHEL: You know, the more I think about it.. the more it does seem like it would be Juliet.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x14 The Variable: Ginger Ale Talk

Faraday's Parents - Eloise & Widmore
RACHEL: You know, a lot of what was answered/said on last night's episode - we've talked about or mentioned in our previous entries.
SUSAN: Yeah, it was nice to be proved right most of the night, aside from Eloise actually being Faraday's mom.
RACHEL: Well I thought she was his mom :)
SUSAN: Okay, ONE of us was proved right. And Widmore is his dad but.. Eloise isn't Penny's mom? They [Faraday & Penny] seem pretty close in age. So.. does that mean Widmore was screwing around?
RACHEL: I don't think she is. He probably was. Maybe he had his on-island family (Eloise, Faraday) and his off-island family (Penny, her mom).
SUSAN: What a bastard, no wonder she slapped him.
RACHEL: I also think she slapped him because he knew that she would shoot him in the past.
SUSAN: But she sent him back!
RACHEL: True but Widmore helped. That was his freighter; he made the offer to Faraday.
SUSAN: Last night's was the most emotionally draining episode yet. At the end I felt like I needed chocolate and a nap.
RACHEL: I know right! It was like a mini cliffhanger before every commercial break.. and all this build up towards him DOING something or talking to his mom. And then for her to shoot him like that.
SUSAN: The implication is that Eloise and Widmore were working together, to send their son to the past, where she would shoot him. Why would a mother WANT to shoot her son?
RACHEL: I don't think she WANTED to per se. But from what we've seen of her, she seems to firmly believe in that whatever happened, will happen. That they can't change things and technically that already happened before.

Constants vs. Variables
SUSAN: I sort of felt like the whole thing culminated in Faraday being proved wrong. That they were not, in fact variables, they were constants.
RACHEL: Like maybe he was supposed to think they were variables and try to change things but then get shot? As in, all that was supposed to happen anyway? By the way, we totally talked about the whole even though there's a "set" timeline, people still have free will and always have a choice and therefore can possibly change it.
SUSAN: Yea, last night's episode pretty much established our awesomeness. I find myself wondering why Eloise wants to keep the set timeline so badly. Faraday, knowing he couldn't change things, still talks to Charlotte, and tells her to get off the island. He still tries to save her. But Eloise never even says, don't try to find me or some such.
RACHEL: She seems all about keeping people on course (according to the timeline she knows). But she genuinely seems a little freaked out that she didn't know what would happen next.
SUSAN: Yes! Which definitely implied Ben is the variable.
RACHEL: Definitely. Or at least one of the variables. I think the Losties could still be considered variables. Or maybe just Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid (where is he?!) since according to Faraday, they weren't supposed to be there.
SUSAN: But Faraday was wrong. I'm starting to think, if you impacted other people's timelines, you still have to live that in order to propagate the same timeline that influences your own past.
RACHEL: So you think there's no way that Kate and Jack will be able to continue with Faraday's plan and succeed?
SUSAN: I don't think they can because it influences their own past. Whatever has happened to get them on that island must still happen because you can't change the timeline that's already been set. They can only alter their futures in a way that does not alter the futures of the other people.
RACHEL: So you can't change what already happened, but can change what's going to or what's expected to happen?
SUSAN: I'm trying to think of it the way I learned relativity, with a twist. So, say there are two trains. One is running slow, one is running fast. The one running slow passes the one moving fast, and someone from the slow train spray paints the fast train. So the fast train arrives at the station with spray paint. That's set, the fast train must arrive at the station with spray pain. Anything else can happen in the slow train, but the person who is supposed to spray paint must be alive and able to use the paint when they pass the train. Anything can happen to any of the other people, but that one element must happen.
RACHEL: I'm following and not following at the same time.
SUSAN: So.. Faraday has interacted with his mother in the past and therefore influenced his future timeline. Therefore Faraday must do exactly the same thing in the past because his future has already happened. Jack and Kate didn't interact with Eloise which might make them variables. Although.. the NOT doing something is really DOING something. I just confused myself.
RACHEL: Maybe Faraday's timeline still played out as it was supposed to because he didn't have all the facts. He didn't know. Like if he had known that his mom was going to shoot him. I doubt he would've gone into the Others' camp the way he did, waving a gun around. Maybe he wouldn't have gone at all.

More on Faraday
RACHEL: Just a side note but - when he asked Kate for a beginner gun, that cracked me up!
SUSAN: He's so cute! Plus him playing the piano and then talking about relativistic physics - I swooned.
RACHEL: You and me both!
SUSAN: We're like teenage girls, lol.
SUSAN: Do you think Faraday is dead?
RACHEL: I think he is dead unless Jack rushes out and figures out how to save him. But it seems like he's dead. Wait - I know he said that that was their present now, so they could die. But if he dies during that timeline, how will he be on the freighter? It's just like how we (pretty much) knew child Ben couldn't die because he's alive later.
SUSAN: But he can die, he's already been on the freighter. I'm pretty sure they killed him to prove that point.

Pierre Chang
RACHEL: What did you think of Faraday telling Chang the truth and outing Miles?
SUSAN: I still have the sneaking suspicion Chang knows. When he asked Miles if it was true, I think he was really asking if Miles wanted to acknowledge him as his father.
RACHEL: It's either that or eventually he will believe everything Faraday told him and therefore send Miles and his mother away. But for a minute there, it seemed like he would've believed Faraday if Miles had acknowledged him like you said.
SUSAN: I guess he has to [send them away], that had to happen. Chang is enigmatic, I think he knows a lot more than he's letting on.
RACHEL: He does have to know more than he's letting on if he believe that the island's energy can cause time travel.
SUSAN: Well, we know the incident has to happen. Does Chang know that too? Does he know the incident must take place in order to propagate the correct timeline?
RACHEL: I don't think he knows about the incident yet. But I think it's possible that someone will tell him. He also seems to believe that whatever happened, happened.

Desmond's role
SUSAN: Desmond is really bothering me. Eloise was confident Desmond still had a role to play. Then he gets shot by Ben and suddenly she doesn't know what's going on. What was Desmond supposed to do? Does him getting shot keep him from going back to the island the way he was supposed to?
RACHEL: Which in turn brings up another question - did the Losties subtly change something insignificant but it was still enough to change the future as Eloise knew it?
SUSAN: And is whatever he's supposed to do the reason why Widmore didn't want him with Penny. Did the Losties change it or did Desmond? Or, even more likely, Ben. I'm actually really liking the idea of Ben as THE variable because if it's like math (and god I hope it is because math is awesome), then the variable is responsible for manipulating the constant(s). So.. Ben manipulated Desmond by shooting him.
RACHEL: Interesting. I do like the idea of someone as THE variable and I definitely like the idea of it being Ben. But I feel like Desmond is a variable too because there's been so much emphasis on how he's special.
SUSAN: Is he special because he is constant? Because in the episode, the constant, it's about him? Or actually, if you look at it from the new point of view we got last night, the constant is Faraday.
RACHEL: I was just thinking that. After Faraday went on and on about being a variable, things still happened as they were supposed to (him getting shot), which would make him a constant.
SUSAN: Poor Faraday, he always gets it wrong. And wow what a turn of events.

Freckles
SUSAN: Sawyer calling Kate freckles and the AWESOME look it got from Juliet.
RACHEL: Seriously! Her giving Kate the code for the fence was the perfect comeback to him calling her freckles.
SUSAN: I loved that scene so much I cheered out loud.
RACHEL: I still have hope for Juliet and Sawyer though, based on next week's promo. They have to stay together.
SUSAN: Juliet is kind of unpredictable though. I feel like she's with Sawyer, but she's not as trusting and I think that's gonna come out at some point.

"Gifts" and children of the island
SUSAN: Why do you think Faraday's experiments, that he said he tried on himself before Theresa, didn't put him in a comatose state as well?
RACHEL: Eloise kept emphasizing how his mind is his gift.. so maybe it made him less susceptible? Or maybe it might have to do with him possibly being born on the island. He could be special too.
SUSAN: That's what I was leaning towards. Faraday, Miles and Charlotte are children of the island.
RACHEL: That's true but Charlotte didn't seem to display any "special" gifts.
SUSAN: Yeah... how come the girl gets gipped? Oh wait, what if it's from the incident? So she leaves beforehand, but Miles and his mom don't yet? And presuming the ages are right from here out and there's not more Charlotte actually being 40 even though she looks 17 incidents. Faraday should be about the same age as Miles, meaning he should be a baby in the hostile camp right about now.
RACHEL: Well in Miles' case, we talked about how Chang has probably had a lot of exposure to the radiation so that could explain Miles. As for Faraday, either his parents had exposure too.. or it's something he inherited from his parents/mom in particular.
SUSAN: Or he's just crazy smart. But I like that they're all children of the island.
RACHEL: I was just going to bring that up. I do think that the other side of this war is the children of the Island / Dharma Initiative. And that Widmore/Ben/Eloise are actually all on the same side but they've got their own issues with each other.
SUSAN: Which begs the question, how do the Losties fit into the grand plan.
RACHEL: Right. Are they just casualties of war because Desmond forgot to push the button once? Or do they play a bigger part?
SUSAN: Remember when Eloise said pushing the button is the most important thing he'll ever do? Maybe that's because he'll get a second chance to push it? And allow the plane to fly over unharmed?
RACHEL: My boss and I were just talking about that! How maybe they will succeed in changing the past. And the final scene of the series will be them landing in LA and going on to lead their crappy lives. But maybe one person (like Desmond) will remember what did happen and what could have been.
SUSAN: Well.. without them Desmond never gets off the island and never sees Penny again.
RACHEL: Do you get the impression that they don't end up together? Him telling Penny that he'd never leave her again .. it almost seemed like a sign to me that they'll be separated again somehow.
SUSAN: I think they've built up the ties between Desmond and the island so strongly, it's hard to believe he's done with it. But.. I don't want them to separate Penny and Desmond.
RACHEL: Me neither! But even Eloise told him that the island isn't finished with him yet.

Parent issues
SUSAN: Okay my other thing that is going to eat at me until they address it - they cut away when Faraday was talking to young Charlotte. Is that because he didn't say what we thought he was going to say?
RACHEL: I think? Or maybe he said what he was supposed to and more.
SUSAN: I definitely think there is something to that. Also, I was just thinking, Faraday and Miles were both raised by their mothers. There's sort of an absent father theme in this show, isn't there.
RACHEL: There's a lot of father issues but Faraday seems to have mother issues.
SUSAN: But his mother was present, and raised him. Everyone seems to be raised by their mother in this show
RACHEL: That's a good point.
SUSAN: I know I just hate being wrong but.. what if they're not his parents, really.
RACHEL: Honestly, I do think Eloise is but a part of me is skeptical about Widmore.
SUSAN: What if Eloise and Widmore are two people with an ability to see destiny, for whatever reason and they recognize what his destiny could be. So they raise him as their own as partners; only, Widmore falls in love with some other woman, and breaks the partnership.
RACHEL: That's possible. Widmore said he was the father but Ben said the same thing about Alex and he actually wasn't.
SUSAN: Exactly, and Eloise kept saying things like it's my job to keep you on your path like he was her assignment rather than her child.
RACHEL: But maybe she was also trying to convince herself of that - seeing him as a "job" because she knew what would happen later. But there is something about them being his parents that's a little.. off? I mean, I know we sorta called it about Eloise and Widmore but it's still strange. I hope they elaborate more on Eloise and Widmore's history.
SUSAN: And Faraday's early childhood.
SUSAN: Did we ever see how Charlotte got recruited to the island team?
RACHEL: No we didn't. Also, of the 3, she was the only one who seemed to already have SOME knowledge of the Dharma Initiative and pursuing it on her own.
SUSAN: Yes, I was just thinking that. She wanted to go. Miles did it for the money. Faraday did it for his mother's love. Charlotte just wanted to be there, herself. Maybe that means she pursued it on her own. We know nothing about her, including who her parents are.
RACHEL: Do you think her parents are important? Miles' father is definitely important as well as Faraday's parents.
SUSAN: It stands to reason they are.
RACHEL: Just thought of something else. You mentioned earlier how everyone seems to be raised mostly by their mothers and it's the same thing with Charlotte. She was raised by her mother in England.
SUSAN: Hmm and when Faraday talked to young Charlotte, he said "your mother is going to take you on the sub." No parents.
RACHEL: Right, I didn't even pick up on that! Which sorta leads me to another question.

Faraday's Time Travel Experiments
RACHEL: How did Faraday know all that? About her, about Miles, about knowing exactly what time Chang would show up at the Orchid. The time at which the incident would occur.
SUSAN: And how could he know all that, but not that he was going to die.
RACHEL: Exactly! And presumably he was at Ann Arbor this whole time. Unless Ann Arbor had records of this already somehow?
SUSAN: Or he was studying Dharma already before he came to the island.
RACHEL: But just didn't remember since he had that memory problem.
SUSAN: Exactly, but it was in his journal.
RACHEL: He said he tested on himself right? That's why he had that memory problem. Do you think it's possible that he time traveled (via his subconscious, like Desmond) to the island?
SUSAN: But wouldn't people have seen him? When Desmond time traveled, he only went to the past right? Oh, but Faraday is in the past.
RACHEL: Okay I don't know where I'm going with this or if it even matters but.. we saw Faraday graduate and happy with Theresa, about to start his new research project. At some point between that time and his dismissal, Desmond "travelled" to Oxford to meet Faraday. And in the process, gave him the proper coordinates to make his rat experiment work therefore allowing for time travel. Since he had the right formula for time travel, he was then able to test on himself and on Theresa. Which makes me wonder - where/how did he time travel?
SUSAN: Oh RIGHT. You raise an excellent point. What's more, he has all that in his journal. So when he goes to work in Ann Arbor, he brings with him the secret of time travel.
RACHEL: Exaaactly! Was he using that information and the resources there to find out all that information (about Miles, Charlotte, the incident)?
SUSAN: Ooo so.. maybe that's what the black swans are. Time travelers.
RACHEL: Possibly? I think the black swans play a big part in the incident. Or wait.. could the "incident" be caused by Jack and Kate? Like, what if the whole time Faraday was thinking the h-bomb would solve the incident but in fact, it's actually the cause of the incident or the incident itself because he was always supposed to die at that moment.
SUSAN: True.

5x14 The Variable: Recap

On last night's Lost:

Flashback of Faraday's life:

Faraday the child is playing the piano. Eloise comes over and ominously tells him he has no time (she makes this lack of time quite clear) for such things because his mind is meant for science and mathematics. Faraday protests but Eloise closes the piano cover. Years later, on Faraday's graduation day (phD is implied), he happily greets his mother and introduces her to his girlfriend, Theresa. Eloise rudely asks to have celebratory dinner with only Faraday and Theresa leaves. Later, at dinner, she admonishes Faraday for dating his lab assistant and reminds him that he has no time for distractions. Faraday tells her about a grant he received.. from Charles Widmore. They end up arguing and Eloise leaves after giving Faraday a present: the journal he later writes all of his theories in. On the first page she writes a small note saying, "No matter what, remember, I will always love you."

Years later Faraday has been asked to leave Oxford, where his research on time travel left his assistant, Theresa, with time sickness. He has since developed a disorder that causes him to be extraordinarily forgetful. He is watching the news coverage of the (fake) debris of Oceanic Flight 815 and is crying for reasons he cannot understand. He is visited by Charles Widmore, whom he claims to have never met before. He is guilt-ridden over what happened to Theresa and tells Widmore how he tried it on himself first. Widmore asks him to go to the island, where he needs someone with his talents. He says the island will cure his forgetful disorder. Later, Faraday is attempting to play what he remembers on the piano, when Eloise visits. With a pained look on her face, she encourages Faraday to go to the island. He asks if it will make her proud of him, and after she says yes he agrees to go.

2007, on mainland:

Penny, carrying young Charlie, is following close behind Desmond, who is being wheeled into the ER, in unstable condition. While the doctors work on Desmond, she sits in the waiting room with Charlie. Eloise enters, asking Charlie’s age, and noting how he has his father’s hair. Eloise claims her son may be responsible for Desmond’s condition, Penny mistakenly believes this to be Benjamin Linus but is corrected. Since Eloise claims to know so much of what will happen, Penny asks if Desmond will be okay. Eloise, seemingly surprised and fearful of what has transpired, admits that for the first time in a long time, she does not know. Almost immediately thereafter a nurse comes in to say Desmond is okay, and Penny goes to sit with him. He reminds her of his promise he would never leave her.

Eloise finds Widmore waiting outside the hospital, asking if Desmond is okay. Eloise tells him that he is and comments on how his daughter is inside. Widmore tells her how he’s had to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter and Eloise, angry, reminds him of her sacrifice in sending her son back to the island, knowing she would.. Widmore interrupts to remind her Faraday is his son too, which buys him a quick slap in the face before Eloise leaves in a cab.

1977, on the island:

Faraday just arrived on the sub with the black swans. He and Miles wake up Jack to ask how he got to the island and why he came back. Jack tells Faraday how they spoke to Eloise and how she said it was their destiny. Faraday is convinced they should not have come back, that they have actually gone against their destiny. He quickly takes off to go to the Orchid, where all of the strange incidents involving electromagnetic energy have been occurring. Faraday sees Chang show up ("on time") and follows him into the mine, where Chang tells the workers to stop drilling because they will unleash all the energy stored there. Faraday stops Chang and tells him about the incident that will occur on the Swan in 6 hours. He explains that he knows this because he is from the future, and shows him the journal with equations that have not been discovered yet. Back at the car, Faraday tells Chang Miles is his son, noting the coincidences in name and background. Chang asks Miles if this is true and when Miles says no, Chang dismisses the whole thing. After Change leaves, Faraday explains he is only ensuring Chang does what he's supposed to do.

Back at Sawyer and Juliet's house, Phil is still tied up in the closet, banging to get out. First Jack shows up, then Kate and Hurley, and finally Miles and Faraday. Sawyer is reverts to his pattern of calling people by nicknames. After some discussion about how they've blown their island cover, they weigh their options and decide to go back and try their hand at living on the beach. Faraday, however, needs to find the hostiles, to find his mother. Sawyer and Juliet refuse to help him find them, but Jack remembers Kate had also seen the hostiles, and asks for her help. Sawyer quickly interjects, asking "freckles" not to say anything. Juliet, a bit put off by the mention of "freckles" gives Kate the code to the fence. Jack, Kate, and Faraday leave the house, and Sawyer instructs the rest of the crew to pack. While packing together, Sawyer asks Juliet if she still has his back. Juliet responds by asking if he has her back.

While Jack and Kate go to stock up on guns, Faraday takes a minute to stop over and talk to young Charolette. He says he was going to try not saying "this" but went ahead anyway. We don't actually hear what he said, he may or may not have told Charolette never to come back to the island. When he rejoins Kate and Jack, he asks for a "beginner" gun. Radzinsky pulls up just as they are getting the guns, and asks what they are doing. Faraday tries unsuccessfully to convince Radzinsky he was working on a project for Chang (Change was at home with his family) and then Radzinsky sees the gun Faraday is holding. A firefight ensues, and they all make it to the Jeep (Faraday is grazed but otherwise unharmed). Angry, Radzinsky instructs the others to sound the alarm. Radzinsky heads to Sawyer's, where he discovers a tied up Phil, and his henchmen hold guns on the Losties.

Kate leads Jack and Faraday to the Hostiles' camp, where Faraday heads right in, waving his gun pretty freely. Kate and Jack hold back. When a hostile reaches for his rifle, Faraday shoots warning shots into the ground. When Richard Alpert comes out, Faraday holds the gun on him, demanding to see Eloise Hawking. Richard keeps insisting Eloise is not there, and then Faraday is shot in the back by Eloise. Richard keeps asking why she shot him, he wasn't going to shoot. Faraday realizes who shot him, and that his own mother had sent him to the island so she could shoot him in the past. At Eloise's prompting, he tells her he is her son, and dies.

Written by Susan :)

5x13 Some Like It Hoth: Ginger Ale Talk

Pierre Chang is Miles' father

SUSAN: Shall we discuss? Pierre Chang - he appears to be a happy daddy so why would he encourage Miles and his mother to leave unless maybe he KNEW something was coming. And how does she know he died? Did she leave after his death? Does he die before the purge?
RACHEL: Agreed, the way he was acting in the flashback didn't match the story Miles' mom told him. If we're to believe her story or some part of her story, she was saying that he made them leave. So she might've left before his death and since she & Miles are both alive, they must've left before the purge happened.
SUSAN: So does that mean word of the purge gets back to the mainland and does Pierre know it's coming? Is he trying to save Miles from the fate Walt might have had, had he stayed with the Others?
RACHEL: That's a possibility. Or maybe she just said that to get Miles to stop asking questions. As for Pierre knowing that the Purge is coming, I'm not sure.. he definitely seems to know a lot about the island. More than most of the Dharma Initiative. I also noticed that they all seem to have separate projects going on. Or at least he does. Because he scoffed at the station [Hydra?] doing polar bear experiments. Like his work is way more important.
SUSAN: Well presumably he's the head right. I mean, he makes all the videos so he would know which projects are meaningful.
RACHEL: That's true. What do you think happened to him?
SUSAN: I think it has something to do with the radiation and I think that's why his mother appeared to be on chemo. Maybe he gets time sickness. I think the island emits a strong radiation from whatever the hatch is covering and radiation exposure is known to cause cell mutation. Hence the cancer.
RACHEL: I think that makes the most sense. Maybe that's part of the reason why Desmond is special. Instead of getting sick from the radiation, he became "special".

Miles' ability

RACHEL: I was thinking maybe that's why Miles has his ability. Due to the radiation from the hatch or whatever energy is on the island that Chang is trying to harness somehow.
SUSAN: Yes agreed. Well it stands to reason if Pierre is affected by the radiation, he has mutant sperm.
RACHEL: Exactly. So.. let me see if I can phrase this correctly. Because of Pierre's exposure to the radiation, Miles would've been affected regardless. Do you think Miles got his ability by chance? Or that maybe the island gave that ability to him. Like of all the things that could've happened to Miles because of radiation.. he gets the ability to talk to dead people.
SUSAN: If that's the case, why does the island need him to be able to talk to dead people?
RACHEL: Right.. unless the island has more plans for him that will be revealed later?
SUSAN: Maybe. Wait - this means Miles is older than Ethan right?
RACHEL: Yes? Because Ethan was just born and baby Miles was 3 months old.
SUSAN: So, does Ethan have powers?
RACHEL: It would probably depend if Horace was exposed to the radiation. And if so, how much.

"What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

RACHEL: Want to move on to Ilana and Bram (the guy who talked to Miles in the van & is currently on the island with the Ajira Losties)?
SUSAN: Yes. So they're obviously in the same "gang".
RACHEL: Right. And I think what was implied in last night's episode, is that there may be a third side or team to this "war" because they clearly weren't with Widmore. And when Ben saw them, he didn't show any signs of recognition.
SUSAN: Maybe Eloise gets her own side.
RACHEL: I didn't think of that! That's a good point. I was also thinking, what if Pierre Chang is still alive somewhere. Maybe they're on his side.
SUSAN: Whoa - that would be a really good twist.
RACHEL: I think so too! I read a couple other theories: Alvar Hanso (the person who financially backed the Dharma Initiative) and the dueling analysis suggested a "kind of sect of spiritual guardians of the island's mysteries." I kinda hope it's Pierre though.
SUSAN: Me too. That would be better because, if we're sticking with Star Wars lore as more ancient history that Lost follows (and I hope we are). Miles was established as Luke last night, which would make Pierre Darth Vadar and therefore a definitive bad guy.
RACHEL: But Darth Vadar redeems himself at the last minute right?
SUSAN: Immediately before his death, after destroying the evil power that had controlled him (Jacob?).
RACHEL: Right! So maybe if Pierre is still alive, that's what he's trying to do (before he dies). Destroy the evil power which could be Jacob or maybe even the island itself.
SUSAN: And maybe he needed his wife and son removed from the island because he knew Jacob/island would attack them.
RACHEL: Exactly, I think he made them leave to protect them - not because he didn't care.
SUSAN: Definitely agreed.

The circle of trust between Chang, Horace, and Radzinsky

RACHEL: Which sorta kinda leads us to our next topic. What exactly is Pierre doing? And seemingly with Radzinksky's and Horace's help. They're building on hostile property, hiding dead bodies. Wasn't it strange that they delivered bodies to one another instead of just burying it?
SUSAN: I think it had to go to Pierre for research. My assumption was, the guy was digging a hole and then was dead. But no one knew why and just saw the wound in his head. It does appear this happens a lot because Horace said Sawyer "usually" does it.
RACHEL: I know - makes you think Sawyer also knows more than he's letting on. Do you think that they're working on something that's outside the scope of whatever the Dharma Initiative's plans are? Or that it's just really top secret? But if it's the latter, why and why them 3 (plus Sawyer and now Miles/Hurley).
SUSAN: I think Dharma is a cover. I think whatever they're working on is the real reason they're there.
RACHEL: ooo, I like that idea! But what's the real reason? To use the island's energy for other purposes?
SUSAN: Yes... um, death ray?
RACHEL: Heh, death ray?
SUSAN: lol, just throwing it out there.

Faraday!

RACHEL: Do you want to talk about Faraday?
SUSAN: Yes because I love him. Now I can tell you when I was reading the wiki descriptions, I saw next [next] week's episode is all Faraday hence my bursting excitement that I couldn't share.
RACHEL: Finally another episode Faraday-centric episode! He's been gone for too long. So, it seems that Faraday has been in Ann Arbor at the Dharma headquarters this whole time as one of their scientists?
SUSAN: I guess so or like my earlier theory, he was back at Cambridge. Miles seemed genuinely surprised to see him. Like, he wouldn't have thought he'd be in a group of scientists from Ann Arbor.
RACHEL: True. I think it could be a combination of both. Because I got the impression that he's been with them for at least some period of time. Miles did look surprised but it seems like none of them knew his whereabouts. Plus picking them up at night seemed like another top secret thing, which could be why Chang needed Miles. Because Miles has already been let into their circle.
SUSAN: Good point - that fits with the project being their motivation thing. So Ann Arbor is really looking at data or some such from the island.
RACHEL: Right, it seems that way. But there also seems to be some sort of authority there too? Because remember when they had that meeting to talk about Sayid? When Horace showed some hesitation to kill Sayid, Radzinsky threatened to call Ann Arbor.
SUSAN: So, Dharma is a big company with a division for the front and a division for the real deal. That all report to the same central area. And the town is maintained for the families of the scientists.
RACHEL: Plus all the women go there to give birth.
SUSAN: So.. Miles presumably was born off island. Hmm, is that what makes Ethan special? I hadn't considered this before but, say they [the scientists] were experimenting so the babies born in Ann Arbor end up.. different. But Ethan was born on island, which makes him more natural and acceptable to the Hostiles?
RACHEL: Oh! So that's why Miles is "special" and Ethan seems normal in the sense that he doesn't have any extra "gifts".
SUSAN: We really only have Charlotte as a comparison but she was supposed to be older.
RACHEL: And maybe Daniel. I just noticed a pattern. A lot of the people recruited by Naomi/Widmore were born on the island. Miles, Charlotte. We haven't heard about Daniel yet but if his parents are Eloise & Widmore, there's a good chance he was born there too.

Closing thoughts

RACHEL: Anything else to discuss? Random but those black swan jump suits [seen on Radzinksky and Faraday] kinda have an evil vibe to them.
SUSAN: They do. Also, are you getting chills about Juliet like I am? Because, when she and Kate had to act all clueless in front of Roger, she pulled it off flawlessly. And then when Sawyer hits whats-his-name [Phil] and asks her to get rope, she doesn't so much as bat an eyelash.
RACHEL: I know! I noticed that as well. Maybe it's all those years of being with the Others. And I totally got chills too when Hurley was watching the numbers being put onto the hatch door.
SUSAN: Yes fantastic scene.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x13 Some Like It Hoth: Recap

We decided to give ourselves a little vacation from blogging for Easter week. But now we're back with our regularly scheduled recap and (coming soon!) ginger ale talk.

In tonight’s episode: “All about Miles”

In flashbacks:

Little boy Miles is off the island with his mother, who is trying to find an apartment. She informs the landlord her husband is out of the picture, and it’s just her and her young son, who wanders over to another apartment in the complex, senses a dead body that tells him where the hide-a-key is, enters the apartment, and yells for his mother. He claims the body is still talking to him, saying his chest hurts, and calling out for a woman the landlord identifies as his wife, who died in the previous year.

Young adult Miles (with piercings galore) visits his sick (and it appeared on chemo?) mother. He asks her why he is the way he is, and about his father. She tells him his father wanted nothing to do with them, and died a long time ago. His body is in a place he can never go.

Adult Miles visits a man who wants to talk to his dead son. He tells Miles his son’s ashes were spread, and Miles reacts negatively. He agrees to try anyway, for more money. The man agrees, and asks Miles if his son knew he loved him. Miles sits with the man, holding his hands, and tells him his son knew that he loved him. While leaving, Miles is stopped by Naomi and she tells him her employer wants to hire him. She suggests going to a nearby restaurant. The restaurant is empty, but there is a dead body in the kitchen. Miles “talks” to the body, and learns that the man was bringing Charles Widmore pictures of empty graves and a purchase order for an airplane. Naomi tells Miles Widmore will pay 1.6 million for Miles to go to the island.

Later Miles is grabbed by a group of men in a van who try to convince him he is on the wrong side, and working for Widmore will not bring him what he needs. The man asks Miles “What lies in the shadow of the statue?” and Miles does not know the answer. The man asks Miles to come with him, and he will bring him answers. When Miles refuses (after asking for 3.2 million) he is thrown out of the car, and the man tells him he is playing for the wrong team.

On the island:

Sawyer and Kate head back from dropping off Ben. Kate goes to talk to Juliet, and they are interrupted by Roger, bringing things for his son, who he notices is missing. Juliet puts on a strong act, saying she left him only for a few minutes. Roger leaves angry. Sawyer contacts Miles, and tells him to erase the tapes that show him taking Ben.

Later Roger is on the swing set, and Kate joins him. She tells him how sure she is that Ben is okay. Roger (now drunk) grows suspicious, and believes Kate had something to do with Ben’s disappearance. He later encounters Jack in the schoolhouse, where Jack is erasing a lesson on Egypt (from a quick glance, it looked to be early, middle, and late Egyptian?). Roger tells Jack of his suspicions about Kate, and Jack strongly supports Kate, and intimidates Roger a bit.

Before Miles can finish erasing the tapes, Horace gives him a black bag and tells him he needs him to meet with Radzinsky on an area of the island that is considered Hostile territory. He tells him to pick up a package from Radzinsky, and is careful about telling him he is now in a circle of trust. Miles drives out to meet Radzinsky, who meets him with a gun. Two men walk out from the woods with a body. The men put the body in the bag Miles brought, and send him back to Horace. In the van, Miles “talks” to the body. When he gets back, Horace tells Miles to take the body to the Orchid, to Pierre Chang. Miles resists, but goes. Hurley is loading up his van with food, and insists on accompanying him. On the trip over Hurley smells something, and rummages through the trunk to find the body. Miles explains that the man was digging a hole when a filling in his tooth came out and drove through his brain.

Miles and Hurley meet with Pierre, where Hurley watches the numbers being added to the hatch door (the serial number). Pierre is angry Hurley came along, threatens Hurley with Hydra duty if he tells. Miles admits Pierre is his father, that he left and had no interest in him, and that when he “talks” to dead people it’s really just a sensation of who the person was. Hurley (obviously) has a different experience with dead people. Hurley, in the car with Pierre and Miles, tries to get them to interact, and unsuccessfully pushes them to have a beer together. While dropping off the van, Hurley admits to Miles that his father left when he was 10, but he forgave him and it was the best thing he could have done. Also, Hurley is writing Empire Strikes back to save George Lucas some time. Awesome.

Miles takes a walk by the Chang residence, to see Pierre playing with 3 month old him. He looks happy. Pierre gets a phone call, and walks outside. He calls to Miles, saying he needs him. Miles goes off with him. They greet scientists coming in from Ann Arbor on the submarine, one of which is Faraday (WOO!!!).

Meanwhile Jack is talking to Juliet (and later Sawyer) about how Roger suspects Kate. He says his piece, Sawyer thanks him (and is more than a little stressed out) and Jack leaves. Phil walks up to the porch to greet Sawyer, with the un-erased tape of him taking Ben. He tells Sawyer he knows it was him. Sawyer invites him inside, knocks him out, and asks an unfazed Juliet to grab some rope.

Next week: All about Faraday!

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x11 Whatever Happened, Happened: Ginger Ale Talk

Hurley & Miles Time Traveling Theories

SUSAN: I felt like Hurley and Miles' talk was a little wink to us.
RACHEL: I agree, I definitely think it was a wink to the fans and they represented two sides that are probably most debated with [Lost's] time traveling.
SUSAN: What I didn't like was how they came up with a way for Ben not to remember. To me that was the same sortof slap-in-the-face moment you get when you watch a finale of a show and then find out it was all a dream.
RACHEL: I was just going to mention that. 'Cause they basically answered Hurley's question at the end during that scene with Alpert. But you know, I'm not sure that he forgets everything. I think he forgets the events related to the shooting. So he'll remember Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc. But maybe he just won't remember that Sayid shot him?
SUSAN: But that was crucial. That was why he was so dead set on Sayid being a killer.
RACHEL: True.. or maybe he just doesn't remember how he was healed.
SUSAN: Well Richard said he won't remember any of this.
RACHEL: What's "any of this"?
SUSAN: There's the rub.
RACHEL: I agree with you, I think Ben knowing Sayid shot him is crucial. So I'm hoping "any of this" refers to his actual healing and being taken into that temple.
SUSAN: That would certainly make me happier. Otherwise I'm honestly going to lose a bit of respect for Lost because it comes across as a "clever" way to give themselves license to throw in whatever they like without consequences.
RACHEL: Agreed. Getting back to their debate though, listening to the characters talk about it - I think I am inclined to believe what Miles said. That this already happened and was supposed to happen this way. But they're just experiencing it for the first time.
SUSAN: I agree, I think we've been working on that principle for awhile and Miles was the writers' way of making sure everyone was on board.

The "new" Jack

RACHEL: Right, which means Jack was never supposed to help Juliet save Ben. And that brings us to our next topic I think. The "new" Jack.
SUSAN: I think this is where we knew he was going. Jack never had his transformative moment. His issues on the mainland were always that he had to fix things, and on the island "old" Jack just fixed things.
RACHEL: Exactly. Listening to him talk kind of made me think of old Sawyer and Locke too. He was being a little selfish, sitting back AND waiting for the island to give him a sign of his destiny. I thought what he said to Kate was interesting too. That maybe the island is wants to fix things and he was just getting in the way.
SUSAN: Yes! He believes now. That would mean we'd need to go back and pinpoint every spot in which he messed with the island.
RACHEL: But did he really "mess with the island"? On one hand, you have Miles saying that everything is happening the way it's supposed to. But then as with the case with Alex (and what we hear Ben say in the promo for next week), it is possible to break the rules.
SUSAN: Is it possible they were supposed to break the rules?
RACHEL: That is possible. But then they aren't breaking the rules at all. And this is all predetermined. And who is determining all this? The island? And for what reason?
SUSAN: Can't it be predetermined to break the rules?
RACHEL: True. I'm still confused about "the rules" (and plenty of other things, lol). But that phrase is used to a lot and I guess I'm not sure what it refers to. Time traveling rules, the island's rule, etc.
SUSAN: I'm of the belief that Faraday's Rules and Ben's Rules are different and I'm wondering if Ben's rules don't apply until you visit the temple. Because maybe it's a bit like signing your soul to the devil, you know? So... he gives you your life back, but in return there are certain things you have to do, or follow and if you don't you have to be judged (see next week).

"He'll always be one of us."

RACHEL: I agree, I think their rules are different. It does seem like entering the temple is like signing your soul to the devil. Everyone who enters seems to come out different.
SUSAN: Yes, especially noting the loss of innocence. We've seen the "different" people (Rousseau's mates) react seemingly without a conscience. Is the implication then, that all the Others have undergone this "procedure"? Because Richard mentioned Ben would always be "one of us".
RACHEL: I think that is the implication. But I just thought of something. We saw that they all (especially Richard) wanted Locke to be their leader. Meaning the leader of the Others. But there was no mention of needing to undergo a procedure (at least not yet). Also, I got the impression that the procedure and/or temple doesn't affect Richard.
SUSAN: Of course not, since Richard is Smokey after all.
RACHEL: That did cross my mind. That maybe he is Smokey or controlling it. Is that's why he's not the leader of the Others? But at the same time, doesn't have to answer to whoever the current leader is.

Ellie & Charlies

SUSAN: I think so. I think it's going to go back to a lot of our Egypt research. I just had a thought though as I was reading Jensen's recap. He referred to the temple as a sort of tree of knowledge. So, expanding on that - if the temple is the tree of knowledge, and Ellie and Charles found it, and "plucked" from it, they would be banned from the Eden-like island making them Adam and Eve. Which harkens to the name of a certain episode from Season One.
RACHEL: And they are (seemingly) banned from the island now. Widore claims to have been exiled from Ben. And despite Eloise Hawking (if that is Ellie) having all this knowledge about getting back to the island, she hasn't gone back. Maybe they're both exiled.
SUSAN: Exactly. But, in true tree of knowledge filled form, they are constantly trying to return. God inflicted labor pain on women and the island has been no stranger to pregnancy issues.
RACHEL: So you think the island inflicted that upon everyone on the island? And also, we did see the skeletons of Adam and Eve. And if they are Widmore & Ellie .. then either they did find a way to get back to the island. Or maybe more rules get broken along the way. Cause those skeletons were old according to Jack.
SUSAN: Maybe the right thing for them to do, according to the rules, is to be returned to the island after exile and be judged. And they are judged to be in the wrong so they die holding each other? OH! (Now I'm going through our past posts.) Remember when Locke wouldn't shoot young Widmore because he was one of his "people"? Ben has now been firmly planted as one of them which means, by absolute logic, that Ben is one of Locke's people. Also, what if the temple bestows absolute knowledge of the future with the rule that you cannot change that future? Which is why Ellie stepped in to set Desmond on course because she saw he might veer from his set future.
RACHEL: OH! I like that. And since Ben broke the rules, now he'll be judged (as he said in the promo). By the way, the writers have described Eloise as being a "temporal policeman". So who has this knowledge of the future? Widmore, Eloise, Ben?
SUSAN: And presumably Alpert/Smokey.
RACHEL: But does he? Because if he had all that knowledge and I would presume that he'd know first (since he's the "oldest"), then wouldn't he have known who Locke was when they were time jumping? Who Sawyer is? Who Kate is?
SUSAN: Well, if we're right about the rules then he could be playing dumb in an effort to inflict as little damage as possible on the timeline. Remeber our Jack as Jacob theory? It's possible we've seen the first bits of his conversion with his newfound faith in the island and maybe when Locke heard "help me", it wasn't "help me get out of here". It was "help me, as I am in your timeline, become who I was meant to be". Okay your turn for a theory.

RACHEL: Actually I just had a thought which combines two things were talking about earlier. Regarding what Alpert said about healing Ben. Maybe Ben really won't remember anything that happened, including Sayid shooting him. FOR NOW. Because we also said that maybe Eloise, Widmore and Ben all know what the future is. And the one thing that they have in common is that at some point they're all leaders of the Others. So maybe when they became Leaders and got that knowledge of the future from the temple that we compared to the "tree of knowledge" .. maybe Ben gets his memory back of those events.
SUSAN: Hmm so you're theory is different than mine. Because you're assuming Ben doesn't get any knowledge on this visit.
RACHEL: I don't know if it's my theory per se. It's just a thought I'm putting out there in case Alpert really did mean that all of his memories would be erased from this event. But I don't think that he will get any knowledge on this visit to the temple. I think right now he'll just be healed and maybe have his innocent/soul taken away.
SUSAN: I see it as more of a transfer, absolute knowledge for innocence.

Kate's decisions

RACHEL: Want to talk about Kate? I was a lil surprised that she told Cassidy the whole truth.
SUSAN: Yeah, she came off as very desperate. I think that was transformative for her. Because she's become the girl on the show that's always obsessing over some guy and finally, she had this woman that she could relate to. Especially after her bad situation with her mom. It was the first time (since her brief stint of friendship with Cassidy before) that we saw her really connect with another female character.
RACHEL: I think she also connected with Sun while on the island. But I agree it was different with Cassidy. I think the whole episode in general showed that she's changed. Her reason for coming back was about Claire, not Sawyer. And she's turned into this really protective mother. It seemed like that instinct came out when she trying to help save Ben.
SUSAN: Maybe, she's learned not to be selfish. A bit like Sawyer's transformation actually. Because he's now putting Juliet's desire's above his own in helping Ben.
RACHEL: Yes, they've both grown up while being away from each other.
SUSAN: I hope that's not a sign.
RACHEL: Like now they're ready to be together? I hope not!

Closing theories ..
SUSAN: OH, I had an idea as to why Sun didn't go to 1977. It seems like whenever it was expressed by one of the Losties that someone wasn't to come back to the island, they didn't. Like, Locke didn't want Walt to go back. Claire didn't want Aaron to go back and Jin didn't want Sun to go back.
RACHEL: Wow, good point! The other thought I had concerning her not going back was - she wasn't a part of the events that turned Ben Linus into who he is today.
SUSAN: So then the island would want Ben that way.
RACHEL: Yes? I was reading somewhere how in a way, Ben/the island forced the characters to change or evolve. Jack has become a man of faith, Sawyer turned into a responsible leader, Kate turned into a mature & maternal figure, etc. But Ben would have to be evil Ben in order for that to happen.
SUSAN: Yes, true. You know - we haven't really speculated as to what happens next season. What if, what we're watching is the first run through and then, next season, will be the redo [of this current season].
RACHEL: OR if they do redo a season, maybe they'll redo the first because this season seems to mirror season 2 (more so than season 1). Kind of like, go back to where it all began.
SUSAN: ooo - that would fit with the Matthew Fox knows all.
RACHEL: Just had a random thought. Did you ever see the movie, "The Butterfly Effect"?
SUSAN: Yup, Desmond's time trippiness reminded me of it.
RACHEL: Right and in the movie, he got nosebleeds too. Because every time he changed something, he would keep the old memories and his brain would get filled with the "new" memories as a result of whatever he tried to fix. I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this - but if they change things so drastically.. I wonder if they'll keep the old and new memories. Or does everything get erased and they only retain the new.
SUSAN: I think I'd prefer erased.
RACHEL: I'm not sure what I prefer yet.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com