Dharma Ginger Ale

5x16 The Incident Parts 1 & 2: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-05-28T09:11:00.007-04:00

More than two weeks late but better late than never :) So much happened in the two hour season finale, that it would take far too long (because we're lazy like that) to cover it all in this entry. But for the record, we loved it and texted throughout the entire thing. Now, on to our analysis ..

We finally meet Jacob.. and some other guy

SUSAN: Lost!
RACHEL: I'm glad you brought that up because I've been dying to talk to someone about the finale. Namely you.
SUSAN: Woo!! I haven't said a word about it since I saw it and it was SO good!
RACHEL: It was!! Where to start? Because we should definitely update our blog with this last ginger ale talk until next season.
SUSAN: Jacob? So, he's looking at the Black Rock in the beginning right?
RACHEL: Right, and according to Unnamed Guy (who will be referred to as UG from this point on), it seems that Jacob brought that ship to the island somehow.
SUSAN: And it was implied this has happened before. So, the island is in a time loop?
RACHEL: I don't think a time loop per se, though definitely a loop. I think the implication was that Jacob has brought people to the island before in the hopes that they can do good or at the very least, live in peace. Whereas UG said that it's always the same cycle of people coming to island, becoming corrupt, causing destruction. To me, it was very "good vs.. evil" and "free will vs.. fate".
SUSAN: True. I got the "good vs. evil" vibe as well. Also I need to take a moment and gloat, because Locke really is dead and I think UG is the smoke monster. Therefore, Locke is the smoke monster.
RACHEL: As in Evil-Locke being the Smoke Monster and Dead-Locke is the real Locke right? So you think the UG is also Christian, Walt, Smoke Monster, etc.. and falsely speaking in Jacob's name so he could manipulate real Locke and eventually take over his body, just to find a way to kill the real Jacob?
SUSAN: Yes, so it's like "God vs. the devil" and the devil keeps throwing out these temptations. Now I think it's on us to figure out which events were Jacob steering them and which were the devil guy.
RACHEL: True. Did you get the feeling that in the end, Jacob was almost sacrificing himself? Like he knew that might happen (Ben stabbing him).
SUSAN: Yeah, he definitely didn't seem surprised.
RACHEL: Because if we're to go along with the Biblical theme, in a way, maybe he was sacrificing himself in order to give the Losties a second chance. I don't know why them specifically though. Or to give the Losties he touched a second chance? Or to prove his theory correct, that people don't always cause destruction? I do think that Jacob touching each of the Losties will be important somehow.
SUSAN: So how would Jacob sacrificing himself reset things?
RACHEL: That is a very good question lol. Or remember that Chronicles of Narnia connection from a while back? There was a character called Aslan who was sort of a god-like figure. He willing allowed himself to be killed/sacrificed in the place of someone else. But because he died for someone else's sin, he came back to life.
SUSAN: Hmmm, speaking of dying for someone else - what about killing for someone else? What was all that business about a loophole?
RACHEL: Well in the beginning, UG said that one day he would find a loophole to kill Jacob since he couldn't do it himself. Which made me think of two things: (1) how Widmore and Ben had these rules and seemingly couldn't kill each other, and (2) does that mean UG has been orchestrating everything (like since Flight815 crashed or maybe even before that) just to kill Jacob?
SUSAN: But Jacob had visitied all those people?
RACHEL: I don't think so. I think just the ones showed in the finale - Jack, Kate, Jin, Sun, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid and Locke.

4-Toed Status & the Cabin

RACHEL: You know what I found a little strange - EvilLocke was surprised to find out that Jacob lived in the 4-toed statue. But since EvilLocke is really UG, shouldn't he have known that already based on the beginning of the episode? It seemed like they were both living and co-existing on the island for a very long time.
SUSAN: well, maybe after evil guy stole the cabin he didn't know where Jacob went.
RACHEL: True but that seems like an obvious place to check. Also, do you think the person who said "help me" to Locke in the cabin was even Jacob? Maybe it was UG trying to manipulate Locke.
SUSAN: Wow, good point. You know, I kind of think it was a trapped soul. I'm really giving UG devil qualities. So he (via smoke monster?) captures souls and keeps them with him.

More on Jacob

RACHEL: You know what else is interesting though, of the people Jacob visited and touched - Hurley and Sayid were post-crash whereas everyone else was pre-crash.
SUSAN: What would make them different? I just had a thought - what if when Ben was dying, and Richard took him in and said he'd always be "one of us". What if that was part of the loophole?
RACHEL: Like one of their people had to be the one to kill Jacob?
SUSAN: Yes.
RACHEL: That's a good point. That sort of coincides with something I read on Doc Jensen's recap. This whole time we were thinking Locke was Jacob's chosen leader and Ben was temporary but maybe it's actually the opposite. It does make sense for "one of them" to be the leader and Jacob's chosen leader.
SUSAN: True, but why then did Jacob bring Locke back to life?
RACHEL: After his father pushed him out of the building? Same reason he came to see the other Losties? Except we don't know what that reason is yet. Maybe he had or has a purpose for each of them.
SUSAN: Maybe. Which side do you think Eloise is on?
RACHEL: I want to say Jacob's side. What do you think?
SUSAN: Um, I can't decide if she's her own side. Like.. she's on this vendetta to make things right so her son lives.
RACHEL: That's possible but when she had the chance to change things, she didn't. She still prepped him for his fate and sent him on his way. Unless she hoped he would change things. Oh! I had a thought. What if the leaders of the Others are the constants. People like Ben, Widmore, Eloise. But anyone else, like Faraday and the Losties are the ones who are the variables and could change things. And maybe that's why Jacob visited the Losties? He's counting on them to change what happened. The Others/Hostiles seem bound by so many rules whereas "outsiders" are not or don't seem to be.
SUSAN: oOo.

Was it a reset?

SUSAN:How about a moment for Juliet and Sawyer? So, assuming its a reset, do you think they find each other again?
RACHEL: That was so sad! And, I hope so! I guess it also depends if they keep the memories of what happened already or not.
SUSAN: My assumption is no.
RACHEL: My assumption would be no too. But Doc Jensen had this interesting idea. Like what if the people Jacob touched.. what if those people specifically get to keep their memories.
SUSAN: Somewhat off the point but I need to ask - Sayid's wife. Did she always die like that? Didn't she get shot?
RACHEL: I think they did say she was hit by a car so it would seem like an accident but Ben is the one who tells Sayid it was on purpose.
SUSAN: Ohhh. I would be kind of disappointed if they kept their memories.
RACHEL: I think I could be okay with it if it was explained well or if there was a good reason for it.
SUSAN: So I guess that we'd be face with what was fate and what was free will. I mean if Sawyer and Juliet come together again, that's a big play for fate right?
RACHEL: I think so but if everything is reset, then he lands in LA and she's still on the island? Or is she never taken to the island?
SUSAN: Hmm, she wouldn't be right? Although, what I took from the eye [in the commercial] was that they're back to AFTER the [Oceanic] crash.
RACHEL: Yeah that's what it seemed like to me, that they were back on the island.
SUSAN: Also I was just thinking about how Michael couldn't kill himself. Do you think that's why the bomb didn't go off right away?
RACHEL: That other things needed to happen first before the bomb went off? That is true. So does that mean that certain things couldn't be changed? Like Pierre Chang always had to lose his hand/arm, Phil always died, and Radzinsky always got away.

Final comments
RACHEL: Woah - off topic but reading this blog and a really good point was made: "Frequent reader and comment friend Hillary makes an astute observation - that even if the detonation of Jughead results in Jack and co. back on Flight 815, that plane was off course by a thousand miles. It isn't certain that this flight would indeed get to Los Angeles as intended."
SUSAN: Excellent point.
RACHEL: Maybe that's where "fate vs. free will" plays in. That maybe no matter what they do, they always crash on the island.
SUSAN: Except they still have the Walt issue.
RACHEL: Well let's say they crash anyways on the same island. How they crash will be different assuming that the hatch is never built now. Then their reason for crashing has nothing to do with Desmond not pushing the button. Which means the circumstances of their crash are different. So maybe the plane doesn't split in half, more/different people die or survive, etc.
SUSAN: So we never find out why Walt is special? That will bother me a lot. Remember in the first season "Miss Q" said they thought Walt was special, "appearing at random times".
RACHEL: And for some reason, birds died around Walt a lot.
SUSAN: That has to be addressed or else it's a HUGE hole in the story.
RACHEL: True. Especially if UG did want Walt to come back with the rest of the Oceanic 6 and assuming Christian was/is UG.
SUSAN: It's weird, I feel clueless. I was so sure of what was going on until the finale.
RACHEL: I know, I definitely feel more clueless than usual. They opened up a lot of new possibilities with the finale.
SUSAN: I wonder what happens with Desmond. There's so many questions!
RACHEL: Speaking of Desmond, I thought he'd be a part of the finale somehow.
SUSAN: Me too. Maybe we're meant to believe he's genuinely not going back.
RACHEL: Wait! But if there's a reset and we're taken back to "season 1", then he's still on the island right? Or not, because there's no button to push?
SUSAN: If there's no button to push is he stranded there alone?
RACHEL: I would assume so, unless the Others take him in.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x15 Follow the Leader: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-05-12T20:45:00.005-04:00

Richard Alpert let-down, Destiny and Jacob

SUSAN: Happy Lost discussion day! I have to admit, right away, I thought it was a meh episode.
RACHEL: Really? I thought it was good. Granted, not as many jaw-dropping moments but I think it's because we're being set up for the season finale next week.
SUSAN: Yeah, I guess the set up episodes never go well with me, I'm always waiting for something more. But I felt let down because they were hinting at giving us some good Richard Alpert background and then.. didn't.
RACHEL: Agreed. I wanted to hear him say something or get some sort of reveal on his character. But I think the only semi-reveal we got was that he doesn't know as much about the island as we previously thought.
SUSAN: Exactly, which I felt sad about, because his character has been a little reduced then.
RACHEL: It sort of got me thinking though. You know how this whole time we were under the impression that someone (ie. Jacob) told Richard who the next leader should be? Namely Locke. But now it seems that Locke set himself up to be the leader. He's the one who told Richard in the past that he's their future leader, he told him what hospital to find him at when he's born, and he told Richard to tell Past-Locke to die and bring back everyone. Locke pretty much created his.. life? Timeline?
SUSAN: I think we've theorized this before and yes, I agree, I think they're creating their own futures right now.
RACHEL: I think so too. But does that mean they're in this time loop until something different happens?
SUSAN: Well.. is it a loop? I mean, their individual timelines are still running. They will age and die.
RACHEL: I guess I'm just questioning if it's a loop because we keep seeing things happen again. That Richard/Locke scene, Jack telling Eloise she can change things and her shooting her son would never happen even though it's already happen twice (?) before.
SUSAN: I guess what I mean to say is no one is getting stuck in the loop. Everyone is continuing their timeline as relative to their own life. It's not like groundhog day, where the guy repeats the same day over and over. Each person experiences the event only once in their own timeline. Why do you think Richard is so confused about time travel? That really got me about last night's episode. At this point he's seen time travelers come and go a couple times, and he's been on the island for a loooong time. Is he just pretending not to know anything?
RACHEL: He seems to look at the island from this mystical standpoint almost. There's something very ancient about Richard. Whereas the Dharma Initiative was studying the island from a scientific point of view and trying to harness the energy somehow. Maybe Richard knows the island is special but doesn't know the extent of it because he/the Others just follow Jacob.
SUSAN: Wouldn't he have learned something in all the time he's been following Jacob? I mean, maybe he doesn't know everything in 1977, but he was STILL acting clueless in 2007.
RACHEL: Do you think he's just acting clueless?
SUSAN: I haven't decided. I'm still not convinced he's human, of course.
RACHEL: There was something about the way Ben said for a very very long time and that he's kind of an adviser. What does that all mean. Can Richard even see Jacob?
SUSAN: I'm under the impression no one has ever seen Jacob.
RACHEL: Which makes you wonder - why do they all follow him?

Who are the Hostiles?

SUSAN: I'm not sure we've ever addressed this but who, exactly, are the Hostiles? I mean, I know later they recruit people, like Juliet. But who are the people living in those tents? Where do they come from? Are they able to leave the island before having access to the Dharma camp and sub?
RACHEL: It doesn't seem like it. The Hostiles seem to have been born and raised on the island. But aside from that, I've got nothing.
SUSAN: Which means Eloise and Widmore were born on the island? Maybe we've got this whole "What lies in the shadow..." group wrong. Maybe they are the rightful descendants, maybe they belong on the island. Sort of a religious claim on territory.
RACHEL: So a group that's completely new and separate from the Hostiles, Losties and Dharma?
SUSAN: Um, well I guess no, because they'd descend from the Hostiles. Okay wait.. I was on to something, I'm gonna figure this out. I think, what I'm picturing is Native American vs. settlers style. So the Hostiles are like the Native Americans, and they have a lifestyle that preserves their habitat. Then Dharma comes in and settles the area and there is a war. But, like with most wars, it causes some mingling of the cultures and destruction of old ways of doing things. The natives take on a leader from a different culture. Some people, the Purists, take offense and leave (maybe the statue people?) and some stay (the Hostiles/fake Dharma). So the Purists still hope for a return to their natural culture, so they raise their children to understand and follow their belief system, so they may one day return to the island and fight the war their parents no longer can. A little too far out there huh?
RACHEL: Actually - I was thinking that makes sense haha. Because all these people who want the island, it's this obsessive need to be there and/or own it. Why wouldn't these Purists raise their children to later take it back?

Jacob vs. the Island vs. Smokey

SUSAN: What I still can't figure out is how Jacob fits into it, if at all.
RACHEL: Yes! I don't know about you but I thought that Jacob and the island were synonymous. But now they seem separate. Like the "island" is communicating to John what it wants and that seems to include killing Jacob.
SUSAN: Which also begs the question, whose side is Smokey on? Because Smokey told Ben to follow Locke, which implies Smokey works for the island. But Christian has also been a manifestation of Smokey and he seems to have a strong association with Jacob.
RACHEL: Unless.. Jacob isn't real? Maybe Locke is going to kill the illusion of him, not physically kill him.
SUSAN: I was thinking that too! But then, what is the purpose of the cabin?
RACHEL: It could be just a front - a way to prove that Jacob is real to the non-believers.
SUSAN: But who puts up the front? The cabin has to be Smokey right?
RACHEL: It would seem that way. But does that also mean that Horace never actually built a cabin? Woah I just read an interesting theory. Based on what we just theorized that the island told Locke to kill Jacob - this theory is saying that maybe Jacob does speak for the island and he actually wants Locke to end his life.
SUSAN: oOo because he said "help me."
RACHEL: Right - so this person is saying, maybe Jacob has been trapped by the island and forced to fulfill a role that he cannot escape from. So the only way out of his "contract" with the island is by dying. Therefore, Locke's role isn't to be the next Ben or even leader of the Others - maybe he's going to be the next Jacob. Like by killing him, he takes his place.
SUSAN: So what does Jacob do then? What is his function on the island that he needs to be replaced?
RACHEL: It seems like Jacob's function is to speak for the island.
SUSAN: Do you think this could go back to some of the Egyptian lore we studied a while back? Remember when people died their spirits separated from their bodies, they were judged, and if they were deemed worthy the spirit rejoined the body and they were godlike. What if Jacob needs to die in order to be judged and get to a new form. Similar to the way Locke died and came back to life.
RACHEL: Good point, because Ben killed Locke and look at him now.
SUSAN: So Locke has good intentions for his killing, but Ben didn't. Ben is apparently quite terrified.
RACHEL: But why is he terrified?
SUSAN: Maybe bringing Locke back to life was the island's way of telling Ben he no longer had a say in anything.
RACHEL: True. Maybe Ben always saw his life and future as being the leader of the Others but now he clearly sees that won't happen anymore.
SUSAN: oOo - or, what if Ben, from his studies, knows all the Egyptian history we learned? And knows that now Locke maybe be remarkably powerful.
RACHEL: Or that. I think Ben and Alpert can already see that Locke is different and more powerful. So you think that despite the new change in Locke - he's ultimately a good guy?
SUSAN: Well, my brother was noting the camera shifts (that article we read a couple weeks ago, about the types of shots and what they meant) and the good camera shift (was it left to right? or right to left?) was always on Ben, and the bad camera shift was always on Locke.
RACHEL: Really? That's interesting.. what if the island is evil?

(Im)possible ending

SUSAN: Could be. I just had a thought. If Faraday's plan is followed properly, and works, then the Oceanic flight will never crash, and Claire will make it to CA with Aaron. And Kate's reason for coming to the island was to find Claire. So in her short stint on the 1977 island has she now decided getting Claire back with Aaron is not as important as her own memories? And doesn't that contradict the motherly, selfless Kate who was presented to us only a few episodes ago? I'm not sure if we're meant to come away with that but I can't help thinking she's a bit selfish here.
RACHEL: I didn't think of it that way but I agree that she is a bit selfish here (and most of the time). It's probably because out of everyone, she has the bleakest future if they did land in LA since she'd be on her way to jail.
SUSAN: The more I think about it, the more I think how impossible that ending is. You'd have to have the whole original cast, including Walt. Who, considering how different he looks now, may as well be a 7 ft white man when they film the finale.
RACHEL: LOL, this is a good point.
SUSAN: I kind of feel like they're not changing anything. I agree with Faraday, the only person that could change things was Desmond. Didn't he not listen to Eloise, way back?
RACHEL: I think there have been a few times already when Desmond hasn't listened to Eloise. She said pushing the button was the most important thing he'll ever do. So he stops pushing it and the hatch blew up. Then she said the island wasn't done with him and he needed to go back, but he didn't.
SUSAN: What about when he was buying the ring for Penny?
RACHEL: She said not to but he did anyway, right?
SUSAN: I think so. I can't remember well enough but I think the very fact that Desmond is with Penny is changing things.
RACHEL: I think so too. I hope he plays a part in the finale somehow.
SUSAN: He has to, right? Or are we done with him.
RACHEL: I don't think we are.

The start of war

SUSAN: My friend just mentioned all the bloody faces last night. Do you think that was our signal that the war had started?
RACHEL: I don't think the war that Widmore alluded to has start. But Past-Widmore did ask, why has the Dharma Initiative declared war on them, which I think always happened. Maybe that's how the incident happens. Like in the middle of their drilling, the Hostiles attack the Dharma Initiative which then throws off their drilling and they drill into something they shouldn't have.
SUSAN: Definitely. I could see that.

Love is complicated

SUSAN: Hey, btw - where is Jin?
RACHEL: He's with Hurley and Miles.
SUSAN: Oh right, he had like...two lines last night.
RACHEL: I know! Grrr.
SUSAN: I almost forgot he was there. Has he given up his "Hey everyone, we need to go find my wife" mission?
RACHEL: I don't think so but he probably needs to concentrate on at least staying alive.
SUSAN: Logic has no place in love!
RACHEL: Speaking of love, did you find Richard's comment about Eloise and Widmore strange? Because you know how we weren't 100% sure about Widmore really being the father. I think yesterday confirmed that he was.
SUSAN: But what complicates their love?
RACHEL: I'm thinking power because right now, they're both the leaders with Alpert as their advisor. I wonder if that's normal to have 2 leaders at once. Maybe it's a special case for them since they're together.

Recreating Past Events

SUSAN: So I had a good Lost thought. Eloise told them to recreate the Oceanic crash as best they could, so they got on a plane and it crash/landed. What if Desmond's boat was meant to be a recreation of the Black Rock?
RACHEL: That's possible. Do you think that recreating past occurrences is always the way you get back to the island? I thought that maybe it was just a special case for the Oceanic 6.
SUSAN: oOo, that's a good thought. Maybe it's a way of edging in on the time loop.
RACHEL: You know how Richard Alpert said he watched the Losties die in 1977. What did you think of that? Think it's true or that he's lying.
SUSAN: I think the bomb blows and he assumes death. Also I'm convinced Kate must die this season, maybe that's wishful thinking.
RACHEL: Well supposedly there's a major character death coming.
SUSAN: I think they've built it so one of the girls has to go and I want to believe it's Kate. SO badly. Although it would be ironic and more Lost-ish if it were Juliet. I'm starting to think that's true Lost style. She'd do anything to get off the island, stays behind, gets her shot FINALLY but dies. Kate dying would be...in a way...getting what she wants, because she doesn't want to go back and Losties NEVER get what they want.
RACHEL: You know, the more I think about it.. the more it does seem like it would be Juliet.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x14 The Variable: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-05-06T20:59:00.002-04:00

Faraday's Parents - Eloise & Widmore
RACHEL: You know, a lot of what was answered/said on last night's episode - we've talked about or mentioned in our previous entries.
SUSAN: Yeah, it was nice to be proved right most of the night, aside from Eloise actually being Faraday's mom.
RACHEL: Well I thought she was his mom :)
SUSAN: Okay, ONE of us was proved right. And Widmore is his dad but.. Eloise isn't Penny's mom? They [Faraday & Penny] seem pretty close in age. So.. does that mean Widmore was screwing around?
RACHEL: I don't think she is. He probably was. Maybe he had his on-island family (Eloise, Faraday) and his off-island family (Penny, her mom).
SUSAN: What a bastard, no wonder she slapped him.
RACHEL: I also think she slapped him because he knew that she would shoot him in the past.
SUSAN: But she sent him back!
RACHEL: True but Widmore helped. That was his freighter; he made the offer to Faraday.
SUSAN: Last night's was the most emotionally draining episode yet. At the end I felt like I needed chocolate and a nap.
RACHEL: I know right! It was like a mini cliffhanger before every commercial break.. and all this build up towards him DOING something or talking to his mom. And then for her to shoot him like that.
SUSAN: The implication is that Eloise and Widmore were working together, to send their son to the past, where she would shoot him. Why would a mother WANT to shoot her son?
RACHEL: I don't think she WANTED to per se. But from what we've seen of her, she seems to firmly believe in that whatever happened, will happen. That they can't change things and technically that already happened before.

Constants vs. Variables
SUSAN: I sort of felt like the whole thing culminated in Faraday being proved wrong. That they were not, in fact variables, they were constants.
RACHEL: Like maybe he was supposed to think they were variables and try to change things but then get shot? As in, all that was supposed to happen anyway? By the way, we totally talked about the whole even though there's a "set" timeline, people still have free will and always have a choice and therefore can possibly change it.
SUSAN: Yea, last night's episode pretty much established our awesomeness. I find myself wondering why Eloise wants to keep the set timeline so badly. Faraday, knowing he couldn't change things, still talks to Charlotte, and tells her to get off the island. He still tries to save her. But Eloise never even says, don't try to find me or some such.
RACHEL: She seems all about keeping people on course (according to the timeline she knows). But she genuinely seems a little freaked out that she didn't know what would happen next.
SUSAN: Yes! Which definitely implied Ben is the variable.
RACHEL: Definitely. Or at least one of the variables. I think the Losties could still be considered variables. Or maybe just Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid (where is he?!) since according to Faraday, they weren't supposed to be there.
SUSAN: But Faraday was wrong. I'm starting to think, if you impacted other people's timelines, you still have to live that in order to propagate the same timeline that influences your own past.
RACHEL: So you think there's no way that Kate and Jack will be able to continue with Faraday's plan and succeed?
SUSAN: I don't think they can because it influences their own past. Whatever has happened to get them on that island must still happen because you can't change the timeline that's already been set. They can only alter their futures in a way that does not alter the futures of the other people.
RACHEL: So you can't change what already happened, but can change what's going to or what's expected to happen?
SUSAN: I'm trying to think of it the way I learned relativity, with a twist. So, say there are two trains. One is running slow, one is running fast. The one running slow passes the one moving fast, and someone from the slow train spray paints the fast train. So the fast train arrives at the station with spray paint. That's set, the fast train must arrive at the station with spray pain. Anything else can happen in the slow train, but the person who is supposed to spray paint must be alive and able to use the paint when they pass the train. Anything can happen to any of the other people, but that one element must happen.
RACHEL: I'm following and not following at the same time.
SUSAN: So.. Faraday has interacted with his mother in the past and therefore influenced his future timeline. Therefore Faraday must do exactly the same thing in the past because his future has already happened. Jack and Kate didn't interact with Eloise which might make them variables. Although.. the NOT doing something is really DOING something. I just confused myself.
RACHEL: Maybe Faraday's timeline still played out as it was supposed to because he didn't have all the facts. He didn't know. Like if he had known that his mom was going to shoot him. I doubt he would've gone into the Others' camp the way he did, waving a gun around. Maybe he wouldn't have gone at all.

More on Faraday
RACHEL: Just a side note but - when he asked Kate for a beginner gun, that cracked me up!
SUSAN: He's so cute! Plus him playing the piano and then talking about relativistic physics - I swooned.
RACHEL: You and me both!
SUSAN: We're like teenage girls, lol.
SUSAN: Do you think Faraday is dead?
RACHEL: I think he is dead unless Jack rushes out and figures out how to save him. But it seems like he's dead. Wait - I know he said that that was their present now, so they could die. But if he dies during that timeline, how will he be on the freighter? It's just like how we (pretty much) knew child Ben couldn't die because he's alive later.
SUSAN: But he can die, he's already been on the freighter. I'm pretty sure they killed him to prove that point.

Pierre Chang
RACHEL: What did you think of Faraday telling Chang the truth and outing Miles?
SUSAN: I still have the sneaking suspicion Chang knows. When he asked Miles if it was true, I think he was really asking if Miles wanted to acknowledge him as his father.
RACHEL: It's either that or eventually he will believe everything Faraday told him and therefore send Miles and his mother away. But for a minute there, it seemed like he would've believed Faraday if Miles had acknowledged him like you said.
SUSAN: I guess he has to [send them away], that had to happen. Chang is enigmatic, I think he knows a lot more than he's letting on.
RACHEL: He does have to know more than he's letting on if he believe that the island's energy can cause time travel.
SUSAN: Well, we know the incident has to happen. Does Chang know that too? Does he know the incident must take place in order to propagate the correct timeline?
RACHEL: I don't think he knows about the incident yet. But I think it's possible that someone will tell him. He also seems to believe that whatever happened, happened.

Desmond's role
SUSAN: Desmond is really bothering me. Eloise was confident Desmond still had a role to play. Then he gets shot by Ben and suddenly she doesn't know what's going on. What was Desmond supposed to do? Does him getting shot keep him from going back to the island the way he was supposed to?
RACHEL: Which in turn brings up another question - did the Losties subtly change something insignificant but it was still enough to change the future as Eloise knew it?
SUSAN: And is whatever he's supposed to do the reason why Widmore didn't want him with Penny. Did the Losties change it or did Desmond? Or, even more likely, Ben. I'm actually really liking the idea of Ben as THE variable because if it's like math (and god I hope it is because math is awesome), then the variable is responsible for manipulating the constant(s). So.. Ben manipulated Desmond by shooting him.
RACHEL: Interesting. I do like the idea of someone as THE variable and I definitely like the idea of it being Ben. But I feel like Desmond is a variable too because there's been so much emphasis on how he's special.
SUSAN: Is he special because he is constant? Because in the episode, the constant, it's about him? Or actually, if you look at it from the new point of view we got last night, the constant is Faraday.
RACHEL: I was just thinking that. After Faraday went on and on about being a variable, things still happened as they were supposed to (him getting shot), which would make him a constant.
SUSAN: Poor Faraday, he always gets it wrong. And wow what a turn of events.

Freckles
SUSAN: Sawyer calling Kate freckles and the AWESOME look it got from Juliet.
RACHEL: Seriously! Her giving Kate the code for the fence was the perfect comeback to him calling her freckles.
SUSAN: I loved that scene so much I cheered out loud.
RACHEL: I still have hope for Juliet and Sawyer though, based on next week's promo. They have to stay together.
SUSAN: Juliet is kind of unpredictable though. I feel like she's with Sawyer, but she's not as trusting and I think that's gonna come out at some point.

"Gifts" and children of the island
SUSAN: Why do you think Faraday's experiments, that he said he tried on himself before Theresa, didn't put him in a comatose state as well?
RACHEL: Eloise kept emphasizing how his mind is his gift.. so maybe it made him less susceptible? Or maybe it might have to do with him possibly being born on the island. He could be special too.
SUSAN: That's what I was leaning towards. Faraday, Miles and Charlotte are children of the island.
RACHEL: That's true but Charlotte didn't seem to display any "special" gifts.
SUSAN: Yeah... how come the girl gets gipped? Oh wait, what if it's from the incident? So she leaves beforehand, but Miles and his mom don't yet? And presuming the ages are right from here out and there's not more Charlotte actually being 40 even though she looks 17 incidents. Faraday should be about the same age as Miles, meaning he should be a baby in the hostile camp right about now.
RACHEL: Well in Miles' case, we talked about how Chang has probably had a lot of exposure to the radiation so that could explain Miles. As for Faraday, either his parents had exposure too.. or it's something he inherited from his parents/mom in particular.
SUSAN: Or he's just crazy smart. But I like that they're all children of the island.
RACHEL: I was just going to bring that up. I do think that the other side of this war is the children of the Island / Dharma Initiative. And that Widmore/Ben/Eloise are actually all on the same side but they've got their own issues with each other.
SUSAN: Which begs the question, how do the Losties fit into the grand plan.
RACHEL: Right. Are they just casualties of war because Desmond forgot to push the button once? Or do they play a bigger part?
SUSAN: Remember when Eloise said pushing the button is the most important thing he'll ever do? Maybe that's because he'll get a second chance to push it? And allow the plane to fly over unharmed?
RACHEL: My boss and I were just talking about that! How maybe they will succeed in changing the past. And the final scene of the series will be them landing in LA and going on to lead their crappy lives. But maybe one person (like Desmond) will remember what did happen and what could have been.
SUSAN: Well.. without them Desmond never gets off the island and never sees Penny again.
RACHEL: Do you get the impression that they don't end up together? Him telling Penny that he'd never leave her again .. it almost seemed like a sign to me that they'll be separated again somehow.
SUSAN: I think they've built up the ties between Desmond and the island so strongly, it's hard to believe he's done with it. But.. I don't want them to separate Penny and Desmond.
RACHEL: Me neither! But even Eloise told him that the island isn't finished with him yet.

Parent issues
SUSAN: Okay my other thing that is going to eat at me until they address it - they cut away when Faraday was talking to young Charlotte. Is that because he didn't say what we thought he was going to say?
RACHEL: I think? Or maybe he said what he was supposed to and more.
SUSAN: I definitely think there is something to that. Also, I was just thinking, Faraday and Miles were both raised by their mothers. There's sort of an absent father theme in this show, isn't there.
RACHEL: There's a lot of father issues but Faraday seems to have mother issues.
SUSAN: But his mother was present, and raised him. Everyone seems to be raised by their mother in this show
RACHEL: That's a good point.
SUSAN: I know I just hate being wrong but.. what if they're not his parents, really.
RACHEL: Honestly, I do think Eloise is but a part of me is skeptical about Widmore.
SUSAN: What if Eloise and Widmore are two people with an ability to see destiny, for whatever reason and they recognize what his destiny could be. So they raise him as their own as partners; only, Widmore falls in love with some other woman, and breaks the partnership.
RACHEL: That's possible. Widmore said he was the father but Ben said the same thing about Alex and he actually wasn't.
SUSAN: Exactly, and Eloise kept saying things like it's my job to keep you on your path like he was her assignment rather than her child.
RACHEL: But maybe she was also trying to convince herself of that - seeing him as a "job" because she knew what would happen later. But there is something about them being his parents that's a little.. off? I mean, I know we sorta called it about Eloise and Widmore but it's still strange. I hope they elaborate more on Eloise and Widmore's history.
SUSAN: And Faraday's early childhood.
SUSAN: Did we ever see how Charlotte got recruited to the island team?
RACHEL: No we didn't. Also, of the 3, she was the only one who seemed to already have SOME knowledge of the Dharma Initiative and pursuing it on her own.
SUSAN: Yes, I was just thinking that. She wanted to go. Miles did it for the money. Faraday did it for his mother's love. Charlotte just wanted to be there, herself. Maybe that means she pursued it on her own. We know nothing about her, including who her parents are.
RACHEL: Do you think her parents are important? Miles' father is definitely important as well as Faraday's parents.
SUSAN: It stands to reason they are.
RACHEL: Just thought of something else. You mentioned earlier how everyone seems to be raised mostly by their mothers and it's the same thing with Charlotte. She was raised by her mother in England.
SUSAN: Hmm and when Faraday talked to young Charlotte, he said "your mother is going to take you on the sub." No parents.
RACHEL: Right, I didn't even pick up on that! Which sorta leads me to another question.

Faraday's Time Travel Experiments
RACHEL: How did Faraday know all that? About her, about Miles, about knowing exactly what time Chang would show up at the Orchid. The time at which the incident would occur.
SUSAN: And how could he know all that, but not that he was going to die.
RACHEL: Exactly! And presumably he was at Ann Arbor this whole time. Unless Ann Arbor had records of this already somehow?
SUSAN: Or he was studying Dharma already before he came to the island.
RACHEL: But just didn't remember since he had that memory problem.
SUSAN: Exactly, but it was in his journal.
RACHEL: He said he tested on himself right? That's why he had that memory problem. Do you think it's possible that he time traveled (via his subconscious, like Desmond) to the island?
SUSAN: But wouldn't people have seen him? When Desmond time traveled, he only went to the past right? Oh, but Faraday is in the past.
RACHEL: Okay I don't know where I'm going with this or if it even matters but.. we saw Faraday graduate and happy with Theresa, about to start his new research project. At some point between that time and his dismissal, Desmond "travelled" to Oxford to meet Faraday. And in the process, gave him the proper coordinates to make his rat experiment work therefore allowing for time travel. Since he had the right formula for time travel, he was then able to test on himself and on Theresa. Which makes me wonder - where/how did he time travel?
SUSAN: Oh RIGHT. You raise an excellent point. What's more, he has all that in his journal. So when he goes to work in Ann Arbor, he brings with him the secret of time travel.
RACHEL: Exaaactly! Was he using that information and the resources there to find out all that information (about Miles, Charlotte, the incident)?
SUSAN: Ooo so.. maybe that's what the black swans are. Time travelers.
RACHEL: Possibly? I think the black swans play a big part in the incident. Or wait.. could the "incident" be caused by Jack and Kate? Like, what if the whole time Faraday was thinking the h-bomb would solve the incident but in fact, it's actually the cause of the incident or the incident itself because he was always supposed to die at that moment.
SUSAN: True.

5x14 The Variable: Recap

2009-05-01T09:12:00.004-04:00

On last night's Lost:

Flashback of Faraday's life:

Faraday the child is playing the piano. Eloise comes over and ominously tells him he has no time (she makes this lack of time quite clear) for such things because his mind is meant for science and mathematics. Faraday protests but Eloise closes the piano cover. Years later, on Faraday's graduation day (phD is implied), he happily greets his mother and introduces her to his girlfriend, Theresa. Eloise rudely asks to have celebratory dinner with only Faraday and Theresa leaves. Later, at dinner, she admonishes Faraday for dating his lab assistant and reminds him that he has no time for distractions. Faraday tells her about a grant he received.. from Charles Widmore. They end up arguing and Eloise leaves after giving Faraday a present: the journal he later writes all of his theories in. On the first page she writes a small note saying, "No matter what, remember, I will always love you."

Years later Faraday has been asked to leave Oxford, where his research on time travel left his assistant, Theresa, with time sickness. He has since developed a disorder that causes him to be extraordinarily forgetful. He is watching the news coverage of the (fake) debris of Oceanic Flight 815 and is crying for reasons he cannot understand. He is visited by Charles Widmore, whom he claims to have never met before. He is guilt-ridden over what happened to Theresa and tells Widmore how he tried it on himself first. Widmore asks him to go to the island, where he needs someone with his talents. He says the island will cure his forgetful disorder. Later, Faraday is attempting to play what he remembers on the piano, when Eloise visits. With a pained look on her face, she encourages Faraday to go to the island. He asks if it will make her proud of him, and after she says yes he agrees to go.

2007, on mainland:

Penny, carrying young Charlie, is following close behind Desmond, who is being wheeled into the ER, in unstable condition. While the doctors work on Desmond, she sits in the waiting room with Charlie. Eloise enters, asking Charlie’s age, and noting how he has his father’s hair. Eloise claims her son may be responsible for Desmond’s condition, Penny mistakenly believes this to be Benjamin Linus but is corrected. Since Eloise claims to know so much of what will happen, Penny asks if Desmond will be okay. Eloise, seemingly surprised and fearful of what has transpired, admits that for the first time in a long time, she does not know. Almost immediately thereafter a nurse comes in to say Desmond is okay, and Penny goes to sit with him. He reminds her of his promise he would never leave her.

Eloise finds Widmore waiting outside the hospital, asking if Desmond is okay. Eloise tells him that he is and comments on how his daughter is inside. Widmore tells her how he’s had to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter and Eloise, angry, reminds him of her sacrifice in sending her son back to the island, knowing she would.. Widmore interrupts to remind her Faraday is his son too, which buys him a quick slap in the face before Eloise leaves in a cab.

1977, on the island:

Faraday just arrived on the sub with the black swans. He and Miles wake up Jack to ask how he got to the island and why he came back. Jack tells Faraday how they spoke to Eloise and how she said it was their destiny. Faraday is convinced they should not have come back, that they have actually gone against their destiny. He quickly takes off to go to the Orchid, where all of the strange incidents involving electromagnetic energy have been occurring. Faraday sees Chang show up ("on time") and follows him into the mine, where Chang tells the workers to stop drilling because they will unleash all the energy stored there. Faraday stops Chang and tells him about the incident that will occur on the Swan in 6 hours. He explains that he knows this because he is from the future, and shows him the journal with equations that have not been discovered yet. Back at the car, Faraday tells Chang Miles is his son, noting the coincidences in name and background. Chang asks Miles if this is true and when Miles says no, Chang dismisses the whole thing. After Change leaves, Faraday explains he is only ensuring Chang does what he's supposed to do.

Back at Sawyer and Juliet's house, Phil is still tied up in the closet, banging to get out. First Jack shows up, then Kate and Hurley, and finally Miles and Faraday. Sawyer is reverts to his pattern of calling people by nicknames. After some discussion about how they've blown their island cover, they weigh their options and decide to go back and try their hand at living on the beach. Faraday, however, needs to find the hostiles, to find his mother. Sawyer and Juliet refuse to help him find them, but Jack remembers Kate had also seen the hostiles, and asks for her help. Sawyer quickly interjects, asking "freckles" not to say anything. Juliet, a bit put off by the mention of "freckles" gives Kate the code to the fence. Jack, Kate, and Faraday leave the house, and Sawyer instructs the rest of the crew to pack. While packing together, Sawyer asks Juliet if she still has his back. Juliet responds by asking if he has her back.

While Jack and Kate go to stock up on guns, Faraday takes a minute to stop over and talk to young Charolette. He says he was going to try not saying "this" but went ahead anyway. We don't actually hear what he said, he may or may not have told Charolette never to come back to the island. When he rejoins Kate and Jack, he asks for a "beginner" gun. Radzinsky pulls up just as they are getting the guns, and asks what they are doing. Faraday tries unsuccessfully to convince Radzinsky he was working on a project for Chang (Change was at home with his family) and then Radzinsky sees the gun Faraday is holding. A firefight ensues, and they all make it to the Jeep (Faraday is grazed but otherwise unharmed). Angry, Radzinsky instructs the others to sound the alarm. Radzinsky heads to Sawyer's, where he discovers a tied up Phil, and his henchmen hold guns on the Losties.

Kate leads Jack and Faraday to the Hostiles' camp, where Faraday heads right in, waving his gun pretty freely. Kate and Jack hold back. When a hostile reaches for his rifle, Faraday shoots warning shots into the ground. When Richard Alpert comes out, Faraday holds the gun on him, demanding to see Eloise Hawking. Richard keeps insisting Eloise is not there, and then Faraday is shot in the back by Eloise. Richard keeps asking why she shot him, he wasn't going to shoot. Faraday realizes who shot him, and that his own mother had sent him to the island so she could shoot him in the past. At Eloise's prompting, he tells her he is her son, and dies.

Written by Susan :)

5x13 Some Like It Hoth: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-04-16T16:45:00.010-04:00

Pierre Chang is Miles' father

SUSAN: Shall we discuss? Pierre Chang - he appears to be a happy daddy so why would he encourage Miles and his mother to leave unless maybe he KNEW something was coming. And how does she know he died? Did she leave after his death? Does he die before the purge?
RACHEL: Agreed, the way he was acting in the flashback didn't match the story Miles' mom told him. If we're to believe her story or some part of her story, she was saying that he made them leave. So she might've left before his death and since she & Miles are both alive, they must've left before the purge happened.
SUSAN: So does that mean word of the purge gets back to the mainland and does Pierre know it's coming? Is he trying to save Miles from the fate Walt might have had, had he stayed with the Others?
RACHEL: That's a possibility. Or maybe she just said that to get Miles to stop asking questions. As for Pierre knowing that the Purge is coming, I'm not sure.. he definitely seems to know a lot about the island. More than most of the Dharma Initiative. I also noticed that they all seem to have separate projects going on. Or at least he does. Because he scoffed at the station [Hydra?] doing polar bear experiments. Like his work is way more important.
SUSAN: Well presumably he's the head right. I mean, he makes all the videos so he would know which projects are meaningful.
RACHEL: That's true. What do you think happened to him?
SUSAN: I think it has something to do with the radiation and I think that's why his mother appeared to be on chemo. Maybe he gets time sickness. I think the island emits a strong radiation from whatever the hatch is covering and radiation exposure is known to cause cell mutation. Hence the cancer.
RACHEL: I think that makes the most sense. Maybe that's part of the reason why Desmond is special. Instead of getting sick from the radiation, he became "special".

Miles' ability

RACHEL: I was thinking maybe that's why Miles has his ability. Due to the radiation from the hatch or whatever energy is on the island that Chang is trying to harness somehow.
SUSAN: Yes agreed. Well it stands to reason if Pierre is affected by the radiation, he has mutant sperm.
RACHEL: Exactly. So.. let me see if I can phrase this correctly. Because of Pierre's exposure to the radiation, Miles would've been affected regardless. Do you think Miles got his ability by chance? Or that maybe the island gave that ability to him. Like of all the things that could've happened to Miles because of radiation.. he gets the ability to talk to dead people.
SUSAN: If that's the case, why does the island need him to be able to talk to dead people?
RACHEL: Right.. unless the island has more plans for him that will be revealed later?
SUSAN: Maybe. Wait - this means Miles is older than Ethan right?
RACHEL: Yes? Because Ethan was just born and baby Miles was 3 months old.
SUSAN: So, does Ethan have powers?
RACHEL: It would probably depend if Horace was exposed to the radiation. And if so, how much.

"What lies in the shadow of the statue?"

RACHEL: Want to move on to Ilana and Bram (the guy who talked to Miles in the van & is currently on the island with the Ajira Losties)?
SUSAN: Yes. So they're obviously in the same "gang".
RACHEL: Right. And I think what was implied in last night's episode, is that there may be a third side or team to this "war" because they clearly weren't with Widmore. And when Ben saw them, he didn't show any signs of recognition.
SUSAN: Maybe Eloise gets her own side.
RACHEL: I didn't think of that! That's a good point. I was also thinking, what if Pierre Chang is still alive somewhere. Maybe they're on his side.
SUSAN: Whoa - that would be a really good twist.
RACHEL: I think so too! I read a couple other theories: Alvar Hanso (the person who financially backed the Dharma Initiative) and the dueling analysis suggested a "kind of sect of spiritual guardians of the island's mysteries." I kinda hope it's Pierre though.
SUSAN: Me too. That would be better because, if we're sticking with Star Wars lore as more ancient history that Lost follows (and I hope we are). Miles was established as Luke last night, which would make Pierre Darth Vadar and therefore a definitive bad guy.
RACHEL: But Darth Vadar redeems himself at the last minute right?
SUSAN: Immediately before his death, after destroying the evil power that had controlled him (Jacob?).
RACHEL: Right! So maybe if Pierre is still alive, that's what he's trying to do (before he dies). Destroy the evil power which could be Jacob or maybe even the island itself.
SUSAN: And maybe he needed his wife and son removed from the island because he knew Jacob/island would attack them.
RACHEL: Exactly, I think he made them leave to protect them - not because he didn't care.
SUSAN: Definitely agreed.

The circle of trust between Chang, Horace, and Radzinsky

RACHEL: Which sorta kinda leads us to our next topic. What exactly is Pierre doing? And seemingly with Radzinksky's and Horace's help. They're building on hostile property, hiding dead bodies. Wasn't it strange that they delivered bodies to one another instead of just burying it?
SUSAN: I think it had to go to Pierre for research. My assumption was, the guy was digging a hole and then was dead. But no one knew why and just saw the wound in his head. It does appear this happens a lot because Horace said Sawyer "usually" does it.
RACHEL: I know - makes you think Sawyer also knows more than he's letting on. Do you think that they're working on something that's outside the scope of whatever the Dharma Initiative's plans are? Or that it's just really top secret? But if it's the latter, why and why them 3 (plus Sawyer and now Miles/Hurley).
SUSAN: I think Dharma is a cover. I think whatever they're working on is the real reason they're there.
RACHEL: ooo, I like that idea! But what's the real reason? To use the island's energy for other purposes?
SUSAN: Yes... um, death ray?
RACHEL: Heh, death ray?
SUSAN: lol, just throwing it out there.

Faraday!

RACHEL: Do you want to talk about Faraday?
SUSAN: Yes because I love him. Now I can tell you when I was reading the wiki descriptions, I saw next [next] week's episode is all Faraday hence my bursting excitement that I couldn't share.
RACHEL: Finally another episode Faraday-centric episode! He's been gone for too long. So, it seems that Faraday has been in Ann Arbor at the Dharma headquarters this whole time as one of their scientists?
SUSAN: I guess so or like my earlier theory, he was back at Cambridge. Miles seemed genuinely surprised to see him. Like, he wouldn't have thought he'd be in a group of scientists from Ann Arbor.
RACHEL: True. I think it could be a combination of both. Because I got the impression that he's been with them for at least some period of time. Miles did look surprised but it seems like none of them knew his whereabouts. Plus picking them up at night seemed like another top secret thing, which could be why Chang needed Miles. Because Miles has already been let into their circle.
SUSAN: Good point - that fits with the project being their motivation thing. So Ann Arbor is really looking at data or some such from the island.
RACHEL: Right, it seems that way. But there also seems to be some sort of authority there too? Because remember when they had that meeting to talk about Sayid? When Horace showed some hesitation to kill Sayid, Radzinsky threatened to call Ann Arbor.
SUSAN: So, Dharma is a big company with a division for the front and a division for the real deal. That all report to the same central area. And the town is maintained for the families of the scientists.
RACHEL: Plus all the women go there to give birth.
SUSAN: So.. Miles presumably was born off island. Hmm, is that what makes Ethan special? I hadn't considered this before but, say they [the scientists] were experimenting so the babies born in Ann Arbor end up.. different. But Ethan was born on island, which makes him more natural and acceptable to the Hostiles?
RACHEL: Oh! So that's why Miles is "special" and Ethan seems normal in the sense that he doesn't have any extra "gifts".
SUSAN: We really only have Charlotte as a comparison but she was supposed to be older.
RACHEL: And maybe Daniel. I just noticed a pattern. A lot of the people recruited by Naomi/Widmore were born on the island. Miles, Charlotte. We haven't heard about Daniel yet but if his parents are Eloise & Widmore, there's a good chance he was born there too.

Closing thoughts

RACHEL: Anything else to discuss? Random but those black swan jump suits [seen on Radzinksky and Faraday] kinda have an evil vibe to them.
SUSAN: They do. Also, are you getting chills about Juliet like I am? Because, when she and Kate had to act all clueless in front of Roger, she pulled it off flawlessly. And then when Sawyer hits whats-his-name [Phil] and asks her to get rope, she doesn't so much as bat an eyelash.
RACHEL: I know! I noticed that as well. Maybe it's all those years of being with the Others. And I totally got chills too when Hurley was watching the numbers being put onto the hatch door.
SUSAN: Yes fantastic scene.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x13 Some Like It Hoth: Recap

2009-04-16T09:16:00.005-04:00

We decided to give ourselves a little vacation from blogging for Easter week. But now we're back with our regularly scheduled recap and (coming soon!) ginger ale talk.

In tonight’s episode: “All about Miles”

In flashbacks:

Little boy Miles is off the island with his mother, who is trying to find an apartment. She informs the landlord her husband is out of the picture, and it’s just her and her young son, who wanders over to another apartment in the complex, senses a dead body that tells him where the hide-a-key is, enters the apartment, and yells for his mother. He claims the body is still talking to him, saying his chest hurts, and calling out for a woman the landlord identifies as his wife, who died in the previous year.

Young adult Miles (with piercings galore) visits his sick (and it appeared on chemo?) mother. He asks her why he is the way he is, and about his father. She tells him his father wanted nothing to do with them, and died a long time ago. His body is in a place he can never go.

Adult Miles visits a man who wants to talk to his dead son. He tells Miles his son’s ashes were spread, and Miles reacts negatively. He agrees to try anyway, for more money. The man agrees, and asks Miles if his son knew he loved him. Miles sits with the man, holding his hands, and tells him his son knew that he loved him. While leaving, Miles is stopped by Naomi and she tells him her employer wants to hire him. She suggests going to a nearby restaurant. The restaurant is empty, but there is a dead body in the kitchen. Miles “talks” to the body, and learns that the man was bringing Charles Widmore pictures of empty graves and a purchase order for an airplane. Naomi tells Miles Widmore will pay 1.6 million for Miles to go to the island.

Later Miles is grabbed by a group of men in a van who try to convince him he is on the wrong side, and working for Widmore will not bring him what he needs. The man asks Miles “What lies in the shadow of the statue?” and Miles does not know the answer. The man asks Miles to come with him, and he will bring him answers. When Miles refuses (after asking for 3.2 million) he is thrown out of the car, and the man tells him he is playing for the wrong team.

On the island:

Sawyer and Kate head back from dropping off Ben. Kate goes to talk to Juliet, and they are interrupted by Roger, bringing things for his son, who he notices is missing. Juliet puts on a strong act, saying she left him only for a few minutes. Roger leaves angry. Sawyer contacts Miles, and tells him to erase the tapes that show him taking Ben.

Later Roger is on the swing set, and Kate joins him. She tells him how sure she is that Ben is okay. Roger (now drunk) grows suspicious, and believes Kate had something to do with Ben’s disappearance. He later encounters Jack in the schoolhouse, where Jack is erasing a lesson on Egypt (from a quick glance, it looked to be early, middle, and late Egyptian?). Roger tells Jack of his suspicions about Kate, and Jack strongly supports Kate, and intimidates Roger a bit.

Before Miles can finish erasing the tapes, Horace gives him a black bag and tells him he needs him to meet with Radzinsky on an area of the island that is considered Hostile territory. He tells him to pick up a package from Radzinsky, and is careful about telling him he is now in a circle of trust. Miles drives out to meet Radzinsky, who meets him with a gun. Two men walk out from the woods with a body. The men put the body in the bag Miles brought, and send him back to Horace. In the van, Miles “talks” to the body. When he gets back, Horace tells Miles to take the body to the Orchid, to Pierre Chang. Miles resists, but goes. Hurley is loading up his van with food, and insists on accompanying him. On the trip over Hurley smells something, and rummages through the trunk to find the body. Miles explains that the man was digging a hole when a filling in his tooth came out and drove through his brain.

Miles and Hurley meet with Pierre, where Hurley watches the numbers being added to the hatch door (the serial number). Pierre is angry Hurley came along, threatens Hurley with Hydra duty if he tells. Miles admits Pierre is his father, that he left and had no interest in him, and that when he “talks” to dead people it’s really just a sensation of who the person was. Hurley (obviously) has a different experience with dead people. Hurley, in the car with Pierre and Miles, tries to get them to interact, and unsuccessfully pushes them to have a beer together. While dropping off the van, Hurley admits to Miles that his father left when he was 10, but he forgave him and it was the best thing he could have done. Also, Hurley is writing Empire Strikes back to save George Lucas some time. Awesome.

Miles takes a walk by the Chang residence, to see Pierre playing with 3 month old him. He looks happy. Pierre gets a phone call, and walks outside. He calls to Miles, saying he needs him. Miles goes off with him. They greet scientists coming in from Ann Arbor on the submarine, one of which is Faraday (WOO!!!).

Meanwhile Jack is talking to Juliet (and later Sawyer) about how Roger suspects Kate. He says his piece, Sawyer thanks him (and is more than a little stressed out) and Jack leaves. Phil walks up to the porch to greet Sawyer, with the un-erased tape of him taking Ben. He tells Sawyer he knows it was him. Sawyer invites him inside, knocks him out, and asks an unfazed Juliet to grab some rope.

Next week: All about Faraday!

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x11 Whatever Happened, Happened: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-04-06T22:11:00.010-04:00

Hurley & Miles Time Traveling Theories

SUSAN: I felt like Hurley and Miles' talk was a little wink to us.
RACHEL: I agree, I definitely think it was a wink to the fans and they represented two sides that are probably most debated with [Lost's] time traveling.
SUSAN: What I didn't like was how they came up with a way for Ben not to remember. To me that was the same sortof slap-in-the-face moment you get when you watch a finale of a show and then find out it was all a dream.
RACHEL: I was just going to mention that. 'Cause they basically answered Hurley's question at the end during that scene with Alpert. But you know, I'm not sure that he forgets everything. I think he forgets the events related to the shooting. So he'll remember Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc. But maybe he just won't remember that Sayid shot him?
SUSAN: But that was crucial. That was why he was so dead set on Sayid being a killer.
RACHEL: True.. or maybe he just doesn't remember how he was healed.
SUSAN: Well Richard said he won't remember any of this.
RACHEL: What's "any of this"?
SUSAN: There's the rub.
RACHEL: I agree with you, I think Ben knowing Sayid shot him is crucial. So I'm hoping "any of this" refers to his actual healing and being taken into that temple.
SUSAN: That would certainly make me happier. Otherwise I'm honestly going to lose a bit of respect for Lost because it comes across as a "clever" way to give themselves license to throw in whatever they like without consequences.
RACHEL: Agreed. Getting back to their debate though, listening to the characters talk about it - I think I am inclined to believe what Miles said. That this already happened and was supposed to happen this way. But they're just experiencing it for the first time.
SUSAN: I agree, I think we've been working on that principle for awhile and Miles was the writers' way of making sure everyone was on board.

The "new" Jack

RACHEL: Right, which means Jack was never supposed to help Juliet save Ben. And that brings us to our next topic I think. The "new" Jack.
SUSAN: I think this is where we knew he was going. Jack never had his transformative moment. His issues on the mainland were always that he had to fix things, and on the island "old" Jack just fixed things.
RACHEL: Exactly. Listening to him talk kind of made me think of old Sawyer and Locke too. He was being a little selfish, sitting back AND waiting for the island to give him a sign of his destiny. I thought what he said to Kate was interesting too. That maybe the island is wants to fix things and he was just getting in the way.
SUSAN: Yes! He believes now. That would mean we'd need to go back and pinpoint every spot in which he messed with the island.
RACHEL: But did he really "mess with the island"? On one hand, you have Miles saying that everything is happening the way it's supposed to. But then as with the case with Alex (and what we hear Ben say in the promo for next week), it is possible to break the rules.
SUSAN: Is it possible they were supposed to break the rules?
RACHEL: That is possible. But then they aren't breaking the rules at all. And this is all predetermined. And who is determining all this? The island? And for what reason?
SUSAN: Can't it be predetermined to break the rules?
RACHEL: True. I'm still confused about "the rules" (and plenty of other things, lol). But that phrase is used to a lot and I guess I'm not sure what it refers to. Time traveling rules, the island's rule, etc.
SUSAN: I'm of the belief that Faraday's Rules and Ben's Rules are different and I'm wondering if Ben's rules don't apply until you visit the temple. Because maybe it's a bit like signing your soul to the devil, you know? So... he gives you your life back, but in return there are certain things you have to do, or follow and if you don't you have to be judged (see next week).

"He'll always be one of us."

RACHEL: I agree, I think their rules are different. It does seem like entering the temple is like signing your soul to the devil. Everyone who enters seems to come out different.
SUSAN: Yes, especially noting the loss of innocence. We've seen the "different" people (Rousseau's mates) react seemingly without a conscience. Is the implication then, that all the Others have undergone this "procedure"? Because Richard mentioned Ben would always be "one of us".
RACHEL: I think that is the implication. But I just thought of something. We saw that they all (especially Richard) wanted Locke to be their leader. Meaning the leader of the Others. But there was no mention of needing to undergo a procedure (at least not yet). Also, I got the impression that the procedure and/or temple doesn't affect Richard.
SUSAN: Of course not, since Richard is Smokey after all.
RACHEL: That did cross my mind. That maybe he is Smokey or controlling it. Is that's why he's not the leader of the Others? But at the same time, doesn't have to answer to whoever the current leader is.

Ellie & Charlies

SUSAN: I think so. I think it's going to go back to a lot of our Egypt research. I just had a thought though as I was reading Jensen's recap. He referred to the temple as a sort of tree of knowledge. So, expanding on that - if the temple is the tree of knowledge, and Ellie and Charles found it, and "plucked" from it, they would be banned from the Eden-like island making them Adam and Eve. Which harkens to the name of a certain episode from Season One.
RACHEL: And they are (seemingly) banned from the island now. Widore claims to have been exiled from Ben. And despite Eloise Hawking (if that is Ellie) having all this knowledge about getting back to the island, she hasn't gone back. Maybe they're both exiled.
SUSAN: Exactly. But, in true tree of knowledge filled form, they are constantly trying to return. God inflicted labor pain on women and the island has been no stranger to pregnancy issues.
RACHEL: So you think the island inflicted that upon everyone on the island? And also, we did see the skeletons of Adam and Eve. And if they are Widmore & Ellie .. then either they did find a way to get back to the island. Or maybe more rules get broken along the way. Cause those skeletons were old according to Jack.
SUSAN: Maybe the right thing for them to do, according to the rules, is to be returned to the island after exile and be judged. And they are judged to be in the wrong so they die holding each other? OH! (Now I'm going through our past posts.) Remember when Locke wouldn't shoot young Widmore because he was one of his "people"? Ben has now been firmly planted as one of them which means, by absolute logic, that Ben is one of Locke's people. Also, what if the temple bestows absolute knowledge of the future with the rule that you cannot change that future? Which is why Ellie stepped in to set Desmond on course because she saw he might veer from his set future.
RACHEL: OH! I like that. And since Ben broke the rules, now he'll be judged (as he said in the promo). By the way, the writers have described Eloise as being a "temporal policeman". So who has this knowledge of the future? Widmore, Eloise, Ben?
SUSAN: And presumably Alpert/Smokey.
RACHEL: But does he? Because if he had all that knowledge and I would presume that he'd know first (since he's the "oldest"), then wouldn't he have known who Locke was when they were time jumping? Who Sawyer is? Who Kate is?
SUSAN: Well, if we're right about the rules then he could be playing dumb in an effort to inflict as little damage as possible on the timeline. Remeber our Jack as Jacob theory? It's possible we've seen the first bits of his conversion with his newfound faith in the island and maybe when Locke heard "help me", it wasn't "help me get out of here". It was "help me, as I am in your timeline, become who I was meant to be". Okay your turn for a theory.

RACHEL: Actually I just had a thought which combines two things were talking about earlier. Regarding what Alpert said about healing Ben. Maybe Ben really won't remember anything that happened, including Sayid shooting him. FOR NOW. Because we also said that maybe Eloise, Widmore and Ben all know what the future is. And the one thing that they have in common is that at some point they're all leaders of the Others. So maybe when they became Leaders and got that knowledge of the future from the temple that we compared to the "tree of knowledge" .. maybe Ben gets his memory back of those events.
SUSAN: Hmm so you're theory is different than mine. Because you're assuming Ben doesn't get any knowledge on this visit.
RACHEL: I don't know if it's my theory per se. It's just a thought I'm putting out there in case Alpert really did mean that all of his memories would be erased from this event. But I don't think that he will get any knowledge on this visit to the temple. I think right now he'll just be healed and maybe have his innocent/soul taken away.
SUSAN: I see it as more of a transfer, absolute knowledge for innocence.

Kate's decisions

RACHEL: Want to talk about Kate? I was a lil surprised that she told Cassidy the whole truth.
SUSAN: Yeah, she came off as very desperate. I think that was transformative for her. Because she's become the girl on the show that's always obsessing over some guy and finally, she had this woman that she could relate to. Especially after her bad situation with her mom. It was the first time (since her brief stint of friendship with Cassidy before) that we saw her really connect with another female character.
RACHEL: I think she also connected with Sun while on the island. But I agree it was different with Cassidy. I think the whole episode in general showed that she's changed. Her reason for coming back was about Claire, not Sawyer. And she's turned into this really protective mother. It seemed like that instinct came out when she trying to help save Ben.
SUSAN: Maybe, she's learned not to be selfish. A bit like Sawyer's transformation actually. Because he's now putting Juliet's desire's above his own in helping Ben.
RACHEL: Yes, they've both grown up while being away from each other.
SUSAN: I hope that's not a sign.
RACHEL: Like now they're ready to be together? I hope not!

Closing theories ..
SUSAN: OH, I had an idea as to why Sun didn't go to 1977. It seems like whenever it was expressed by one of the Losties that someone wasn't to come back to the island, they didn't. Like, Locke didn't want Walt to go back. Claire didn't want Aaron to go back and Jin didn't want Sun to go back.
RACHEL: Wow, good point! The other thought I had concerning her not going back was - she wasn't a part of the events that turned Ben Linus into who he is today.
SUSAN: So then the island would want Ben that way.
RACHEL: Yes? I was reading somewhere how in a way, Ben/the island forced the characters to change or evolve. Jack has become a man of faith, Sawyer turned into a responsible leader, Kate turned into a mature & maternal figure, etc. But Ben would have to be evil Ben in order for that to happen.
SUSAN: Yes, true. You know - we haven't really speculated as to what happens next season. What if, what we're watching is the first run through and then, next season, will be the redo [of this current season].
RACHEL: OR if they do redo a season, maybe they'll redo the first because this season seems to mirror season 2 (more so than season 1). Kind of like, go back to where it all began.
SUSAN: ooo - that would fit with the Matthew Fox knows all.
RACHEL: Just had a random thought. Did you ever see the movie, "The Butterfly Effect"?
SUSAN: Yup, Desmond's time trippiness reminded me of it.
RACHEL: Right and in the movie, he got nosebleeds too. Because every time he changed something, he would keep the old memories and his brain would get filled with the "new" memories as a result of whatever he tried to fix. I'm not entirely sure where I'm going with this - but if they change things so drastically.. I wonder if they'll keep the old and new memories. Or does everything get erased and they only retain the new.
SUSAN: I think I'd prefer erased.
RACHEL: I'm not sure what I prefer yet.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x11 Whatever Happened, Happened: Recap

2009-04-03T15:35:00.013-04:00

In last night's episode:

1977, on the island

Jin wakes up from his Sayid-induced stupor to find Ben lying on the road, bleeding, asking for help. Meanwhile Horace is preparing the camp for an all-out Hostile invasion, and makes it known that the person who set the bus on fire had to have come from inside the camp. Kate ends up helping Roger Linus remove the burnt bus from the house it ran into, and they have a bit of a bonding moment.

Ben is brought to the infirmary, where Juliet is working on him, but needs a surgeon's help to stop the bleeding. Sawyer goes to the house where Jack, Kate, and Hurley are being held captive by Miles ("You can leave, but I'll have to shoot you in the leg"). Hurley and Miles are trying to figure out the time paradox. Hurley keeps wondering if he's disappearing (see: Back to the Future) and Miles is trying to explain the "whatever happened, happened" theory. Miles is dumbfounded, however, when asked why adult Ben wouldn't remember being shot by Sayid, if he'd lived this childhood before. Sawyer tries to enlist Jack's help, but Jack refuses. Jack and Kate have a moment in the kitchen. She is trying to convince him to help Ben, he remembers doing this before (remember way back when? or...way forward when?) and says last time, he saved Ben for HER, and he won't do it again. She says she misses the old him, to which he replies, "You didn't like the old me."

Kate decides to donate blood, as she is a universal donor. While she is in the infirmary, she has another moment with Roger Linus, where we see his softer side. He knows that Ben stole his keys (prompted by Sawyer asking for his keys, "That guy never asks a question he doesn't already know the answer to"). He admits to not doing a good job with Ben, but trying to do what Ben's mother would have wanted. Ben goes into shock, and Roger is removed from the room. Kate and Juliet decided to bring Ben to the Hostiles/Others as they may be the only ones that can save him. They load Ben into the van and Kate drives off, Juliet promises to give Kate a head start, but cannot lie to Sawyer. Juliet initially wants to join Kate on the bus, but Kate, protective of the life Juliet has built there, asks her to stay behind. After Kate leaves, Juliet visits Jack (who happens to be in the shower), disappointed in him for not helping Ben. Jack expresses how he's changed, and he's not going to try to fix everything anymore.

When Kate reaches the sonic fence, Sawyer drives up. She thinks he is there to stop her, but he is there to help. He tells her he's doing it for Juliet, because she doesn't want the little boy to die. He disables the sonic fence, and carries Ben to the line that marks Hostile territory. They are held at gunpoint by the Hostiles, and ask to see Richard Alpert. They speak with Richard, who says he can help Ben, but he will have no memory of this occurance, and he will have lost his innocence forever. Kate agrees to these terms, and Sawyer and Kate leave. Richard carries Ben into Smokey's Egyptian temple.

2007ish, on mainland

With Aaron still a baby, Kate goes to visit Cassidy. Cassidy recognizes Kate, but is slightly distraut when Kate tells her Sawyer sent her. Kate reveals (almost) the whole story, and Cassidy recognizes the look in Kate's eyes as the broken heart she received from Sawyer. Kate asks about Clementine, Sawyer's daughter, and tries to give Cassidy money. Cassidy realizes Aaron is not Kate's son. She also tells Kate that Sawyer jumped from the plane not to be heroic, but for fear of what would happen if he'd stayed.

With Aaron as a toddler, Kate is back on the docks, listening to Jack and Ben talk about going back to the island. She leaves with Aaron. They stop at a supermarket, where Kate loses track of Aaron when Jack calls her. she finds him being escorted by a woman who (from behind) looks like Claire. She goes to Cassidy's house (who she has, apparently, been seeing a lot of over the last three years) and tells her about going back to the island, and losing Aaron. Cassidy tells her she kept Aaron because she needed him, to deal with her broken heart from Sawyer. Kate returns to the motel where Claire's mother had been staying (who Jack had visited the day before, while Kate sat in the car). She checks in two doors down, and visits with Claire's mother. She tells her about Aaron, explains where he is, and that he's there for her when she's ready. Kate says she is going back to the island to find Aaron's mother, Claire. Then she says goodbye to Aaron.

2007, island

Ben wakes up to find Locke sitting at his bedside. "Welcome to the world of the living."

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x10 He's Our You: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-03-29T16:05:00.008-04:00

Were the rules broken?

SUSAN: A friend's away message: "From the season opener, in response to the thought of time travel to kill Hitler Dr. Chang says, 'Don't be ridiculous. There are rules, which can't be broken.' Looks like we're going to find out about these rules very soon." Which makes me think that Keamy is the only one that's broken the rules thus far and Ben's daughter is actually supposed to be back in time with the rest of them.
RACHEL: So is killing Ben like course correcting..?
SUSAN: Um that much I haven't figured out yet.
RACHEL: So I'm just grasping at straws here. But if Alex was never supposed to die, maybe this is course correcting for her. Because if Ben isn't alive to take her away from Rousseau then maybe she never would've been killed by Keamy. By the way, I'm reading the one recap that's posted online (this early in the morning) BUT it's speculating if Ben AND Jin are dead. I didn't think he killed Jin?
SUSAN: No, he just punched him. But I just realized Ben then knew Jin was alive even before Locke told him.
RACHEL: If he has all those memories, then yes he would know that they're all alive. But then wouldn't he also have known who would go back? Because at one point when he spoke to Eloise Hawking, he seemed to think he wouldn't be able to get any of them.
SUSAN: Well he seems to know what is supposed to happen and be vaguer on getting it there. Like, he also seemed to needed Eloise Hawking's name from Locke. I think he know that x + y = 4 but he doesn't know what "y" is.
RACHEL: That's a good point. Maybe present Ben does have those memories. And maybe Sayid was always meant to shoot kid Ben thus turning him into the person we know now. So maybe Sayid isn't breaking the rules? But playing out the part he was supposed to.
SUSAN: Yes I think the only person that broke the rules is Keamy or by association, Widmore. Because it came as a shock to Ben like it hadn't happened before.
RACHEL: True, he did seem genuinely shocked by that.

Ben - dead or alive?

SUSAN: so, Ben .. dead?
RACHEL: I don't think he is because Sayid ran off pretty quickly. My coworkers brought up an interesting point. That maybe Jack will save Ben AGAIN. He saved him already as an adult. Maybe he'll save him again as a kid.
SUSAN: OH, I like that. The whole mirroring the past thing. Or future. Or something. Which brings Juliet and Jack together again?
RACHEL: Maybe inside an operating room but I don't think relationship-wise. Or I could be delusional cause I want Sawyer & Juliet together.
SUSAN: Hahahahah - we all do...
RACHEL: But I do think they are mirroring the past. In particular season 2 (isn't that when Sawyer, Jack and Kate were captured by the others?). And Hurley technically but they let him go.
SUSAN: Yeah, there's definitely some replay action and the whole Sayid is a prisoner and Ben comes to see him.
RACHEL: It's like when Ben was their prisoner and Sayid went to see him. I had an awful thought. Remember how Jack caught Kate and Sawyer via the Dharma videos.. what if Juliet catches them this time around!
SUSAN: GAH.
RACHEL: What do you think will happen?
SUSAN: I think Ben goes into the hospital and I think we see some back and forth in Jack but ultimately, he's still Jack, and he saves him.
RACHEL: I agree, I think if Ben is still alive.. Jack will be the one to save him.
SUSAN: But if they really wanted to win me over especially after the Charlotte 1979 incident, they would have Jack refuse and then have Sawyer convince Juliet to come in and save the day.

Sawyer

RACHEL: What else to discuss?
SUSAN: Sawyer and his inability to keep his eyes on his OWN WOMAN.
RACHEL: I know! I was a little surprised by how far he was willing to go with the Dharma Initiative over Sayid. Taking him to Oldham, raising his hand to have Sayid executed. I feel like the old Sawyer would have fought harder for Sayid. I think he's settled into being one of the Dharma Initiative a little too much.
SUSAN: Definitely. Well, its kind of the only thing he's ever been good at. Although, by the same token, it's just one long con. So.. does that mean his life with Juliet is a con too?
RACHEL: Maybe? Did you notice that Juliet said to him about "playing house". It's exactly what Kate said to him last season. The life he has with Juliet now is exactly what he wanted to try with Kate.
SUSAN: Omg, I didn't put that together. And it's working with Juliet.
RACHEL: Exactly. He should just stay with her. Do you think Kate came back for Sawyer?
SUSAN: You know, I hate how they cut her off like that. It was a bit of a cheap move. It certainly seemed like that's what she was building to. Do you think she did?
RACHEL: I think it's either Sawyer or Claire/Aaron related.
SUSAN: She did seem upset when she found out about them.
RACHEL: Yes she did. But what did she expect? That he'd spend the rest of his life pining over her while SHE got engaged to Jack. And if Jack hadn't gone a lil' crazy, she would still be engaged to him.
SUSAN: Yeah, she's a bitch.

What does Horace know?

SUSAN: I was thinking - did we address Horace suspicions? Because, I thought something was fishy there.

RACHEL: No, we didn't address Horace at all. Yes, I got a weird vibe from Horace (and from Amy too).

SUSAN: I think they know more than they're letting on about the Hostiles and that private convo with Richard is still shady.

RACHEL: I think so too. Plus Horace didn't seem all that alarmed by Sayid. The only person who was really freaking out about him was Radzinsky.

SUSAN: And he's just not quite right. I wonder if Horace has an arrangement with Richard and that's why his son [Ethan] survives.

RACHEL: I like that!

SUSAN: I have more theories, but I think they involve some pseudo spoilers so I won't say.

Faraday's Whereabouts
SUSAN: Just had a BIG Faraday thought. What if he's at Oxford? Remember how his lab was all boarded up? Maybe that was because he'd taught there in the 80s and also why he seemed to already have such an extensive knowledge of time travel when he got to the island. And always seemed to be hiding something.
RACHEL: So you think Faraday managed to get off the island too?
SUSAN: Yes, I think he took a sub and went back to Oxford. Which implies in 2007 he's sixty something if he's still alive.

RACHEL: That makes sense that he might take the sub. But what if he's been in the 80s/70s for 3 years and then goes back to the island before then [2007]?
SUSAN: Wait - old him or new him?
RACHEL: Which is old and which is new?
SUSAN: I'm not sure. Okay so in my theory one version of him will be on the mainland and in his 60s in 2007. And the other version will have gone on the helicopter with Lapidus and be in his 30s.
RACHEL: But we've seen him before in 2007 or whatever year that was. When he was sitting in front of the TV crying when he saw the remains of Flight 815 in the ocean. Unless that doesn't happen now?
SUSAN: Yes, that still happens. In my theory, he coexists with himself.
RACHEL: Hmmm that would be interesting but very complicated. Because that could happen to almost all the characters - having multiple versions of themselves existing in the same time period.
SUSAN: Maybe that is what happened. I guess what I'm implying is that these Oceanic-now-Dharma folks are going to go back to the mainland and live out their lives and be in their sixties when the younger versions of themselves still living the lives they had already lived. Crash on the island.
RACHEL: Oh! I get it now and I like that idea!

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x10 He's Our You: Recap

2009-03-27T14:06:00.008-04:00

In this week's episode:

Sayid's flashbacks:

The episode starts in Iraq, when Sayid is a child. His father tells his brother he must kill a chicken to become a man, but he is reluctant, so Sayid walks over, snaps a chicken's neck, and gives it to his brother. His father is pleased with Sayid.

We already knew Sayid had been working for Ben during the time they were off the island. Ben had provided Sayid with a list of people who worked for Widmore and posed a threat to his "friends" from the island. This arrangement came to an abrupt halt when Sayid met with Ben after claiming another victim, and Ben (who was standing eerily in the shadows) told him the list was finished. Sayid, confused and somewhat rejected, argues with Ben. Years later, when Sayid is working with a Habit for Humanity type group in Santo Domingo, Ben finds him, and enlists his help again, this time noting there was a man that had been sitting outside the mental institution where Hurley had been staying. Sayid refuses this task, and Ben tells him he is a killer. Sayid tells Ben "You're wrong about me." Some time later Sayid is approached by a woman (who we already know as Ilana) in a bar, and he ends up going home with her. In the midst of their foreplay, she pulls a gun on him and takes him to the airport, where she insists on taking a specific flight to Guam, even though Sayid (who is trying very hard not to go back to the island) now sees the rest of the Oceanic six, and knows what will happen.

1977 on the Island:

Love Square:

Juliet is distraught, leaving her bacon to burn. She asks Sawyer if they're done "playing house". Sawyer assures her that his life there is very important to him. Meanwhile Jack, Hurley, and Kate are having breakfast together, and Hurley (the chef) lets the cat out of the bag about Sawyer and Juliet. Kate is more than a little surprised, and asks Jack if he knew, to which he honestly(and a bit sheepishly) replies yes. Later, Juliet is showing Kate around the mechanics' station. The two share an awkward moment and Juliet says she's glad she found out because, "[she] didn't know how to say it without telling [Kate] to stay away." That night, Sawyer goes to visit Kate, in a bit of a frenzy after speaking with Sayid (more on that) and asks why she came back. She starts "I don't know why the others came back but I..." and is interrupted by a VW bus on fire that runs into one of the houses.

He's Our You:

Sayid is in the holding cell, being visited by young Ben with sandwiches. Ben, mistaking Sayid for a Hostile, tells him about how he was approached by Richard Alpert, and how he'd been patiently waiting, just as he'd been told. He tells Sayid, if he is willing to be patient too, he can help him. On one occasion, Ben's father is cleaning the cell, wondering to Sayid about his true nature as a hostile. Ben arrives, terrified to see his father there. His father, angry that Ben has been bringing sandwiches to Sayid, throws him up against the cell bars. Sayid moves (in a manner I took to be, I will protect you from your evil father Ben) but Ben and his father leave.

Sayid has a bit of a rough episode. First Horace comes in, trying to get him to talk, but he refuses. Horace goes to Sawyer, tells him (a little suspiciaously) if Sayid doesn't talk, they're going to have to take him to Oldham. Sawyer visits Sayid, punches him, tells him he has to make it look like he beat a confesssion out of him, that he is a defector from the Hostiles, but Sayid won't do it. Sayid, therefore, is brought to Oldham ("He's Our You"), where he is fed a truth serum substance. Sayid answers all of their questions truthfull, about how he got there on a plane, and how he'd been a bad man. At one point he mentions Sawyer's name, and his captors ask "Who is Sawyer?", but dismiss it, as they do his other statements. Later, in the cell, Sawyer encourages Sayid to hit him, and take his keys, so that he can escape. Sayid refuses, telling Sawyer he now knows what his purpose is. This prompts Sawyer to leave, and visit Kate (aforementioned). Ben (presumably) sets up a diversion of a flaming bus, and helps Sayid escape, on the promise that Sayid will take him to the Hostiles. While running away in the woods, Jin (in a VW bus) comes upon Sayid, who has told Ben to hide in the bushes. Sayid punches Jin unconcious, and takes his gun. Ben begins to run, expecting Sayid to follow. Sayid says "You were right about me" and shoots Ben in the chest. Ben collapses, and Sayid runs off.

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x09 Namaste: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-03-23T16:48:00.007-04:00

Sun - Why didn't she time jump and her meeting with Christian

SUSAN: So Sun - why is she in 2007?
RACHEL: The only thing I can think of is that the island has other plans for her. That maybe she has another part to play out before she can join them .. or maybe she's the one who will get them back to 2007.
SUSAN: Will they get to 2007?
RACHEL: Good question. I think there's a chance that they won't? But I do think Sun will join them eventually.
SUSAN: I guess maybe they are the Rose/Bernard of this timeline.
RACHEL: Maybe! Sun's role was "Rose" on the Ajira flight. Why do you think Sun didn't time jump with the rest of them?
SUSAN: I can't figure it out honestly and it.s bothering me.
RACHEL: Same. I feel like she and even Locke should've time jumped but especially Sun.
SUSAN: Yeah, I mean, she's not different. Her staying behind implies there is something different about her. I think, it bothers me so much because it's convenient for the plot line. Now we have this whole Jin/Sun lovers that cannot be together thing and I really hope they didn't come up with some lame reason just so they could get a more dramatic storyline.
RACHEL: Same here. What did you think of Sun meeting Christian? Since we heard Smokey right before he appeared, I guess he is a manifestation of that? And who controls Smokey? Jacob? Is Smokey Jacob's security system? Because he seems to tell people where they need to go (Locke off the island, Sun to find Jin in 1977, etc).
SUSAN: Sun knew the tree clearing was Smokey right?
RACHEL: I'm not sure, I think she knew something was up but maybe didn't know for sure if it was Smokey or not.
SUSAN: I got the impression she lied to get Lapidus to keep going. She's been lying.. a lot. She's a little shady.
RACHEL: You think? I actually like her character right now. She seems willing to do anything to get back to Jin. The way she took Ben down and just taking more initiative in general. I don't think she lied to Lapidus to necessarily get him hurt. Because if she did know it was Smokey, she was putting herself in danger too.
SUSAN: Something about the whole thing makes me uneasy and Christian appearing to her. It's very, Locke-like.
RACHEL: It was. But Christian seems to appear to people that he needs to do something. Like Locke, Michael .. Claire (I don't know what that's about). So maybe he needs Sun to do something.
SUSAN: So Sun was chosen? Does that mean Jacob is in control of when people go to?
RACHEL: It's possible? He was able to control when Michael could die. Or at least it seemed that way.
SUSAN: This is very confusing. Jacob is orchestrating everything then.
RACHEL: Yes it is. But I got the impression that Jacob is at the head of everything and that other "leaders" (like Ben or Locke or Widmore) are either against or with Jacob's plans.
SUSAN: But if Jacob controls everything, how can you go against him? Is this like a Satan vs God sort of thing?
RACHEL: True.. unless Jacob's plan is to stay on the timeline as he knows it or to change the timeline. So that's why there's still a choice. Because people always have a choice.
SUSAN: So they still have free will then? I was going with what you said. Something just isn't right. I feel like we're missing a piece of the puzzle here that we really need.
RACHEL: Definitely. I'm kinda just thinking out loud but it does feel like we're missing (a lot) of information.
SUSAN: Yes, something BIG is tying this all together and we don't have a clue what that is yet.

Meeting Radzinsky

SUSAN: Radinzsky! Woo!
RACHEL: Yes! What did you think of him?
SUSAN: He's pretty much exactly what I expected and he was definitely following a design from Buckminster Fuller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller) for whom the Bucky ball was named. And I therefore love him.
RACHEL: Interesting, his [Fuller's] philosophy could be applied to what the Dharma Initiative is trying to do.
SUSAN: Maybe HE IS Jacob, lol. I think it proves they're all Humanists.

At the last moment, he decided instead to embark on "an experiment, to find what a single individual [could] contribute to changing the world and Benefiting all humanity". The U.S. government recognized the importance of his work, and employed him to make small domes for the army. Within a few years there were thousands of these domes around the world.

Army!
RACHEL: That single individual could be Jacob. That could be his motivation.
SUSAN:

Fuller was a frequent flier, often crossing time zones. He famously wore three watches; one for the current zone, one for the zone he had departed, and one for the zone he was going to.[23][24] Fuller also noted that a single sheet of newsprint, inserted over a shirt and under a suit Jacket, provided completely effective heat insulation during long flights.

How do you think Radzinsky ends up in the hatch? Because, he must already be down there for the purge right?
RACHEL: Well, that's what he's building right? Or that top secret project that he thought Sayid saw? The hatch? So maybe that's why he ended up down there. Because he built it.
SUSAN: Is the hatch the Pearl? He said he was building the Pearl and I couldn't remember that but I thought we'd heard it before.
RACHEL: According to Lostpedia: "At the Flame, Radzinsky is building a model of the Swan’s geodesic dome."
SUSAN: So if the hatch doesn't exist yet that means the source of the energy that needs to be released cannot exist.
RACHEL: Or it does exist and that's why they're building the hatch.
SUSAN: So.. what is releasing the energy now? And why does Radzinsky draw a map of the island if he already knows the island?
RACHEL: Maybe he didn't draw it for himself. That kinda makes sense right? Like maybe that was for someone specific or just a message to anyone who sees it.
SUSAN: Oh my. But what message does it send? And another thing - Radinzsky designs the hatch, therefore puts in the Egyptian glyphs,
RACHEL: I didn't even think of that! I'm also wondering what drives him to kill himself. He doesn't seem depressed? Maybe a lil' prickly but not depressed.
SUSAN: You know, that guy who was in the hatch with Desmond - what if he kills Radinzsky in the Purge?
RACHEL: Hmm I was under the impression that they were in the hatch after the Purge.
SUSAN: Well, Desmond was but what about the other guy. Oh no wait, maybe he was too young. Eh, I stick to my hostile theory - that a hostile infiltrates the hatch and kills Radinzsky.

Ethan is Amy & Horace's son

RACHEL: I didn't think Ethan was important enough to be the baby.
SUSAN: Me neither but it has implications. Because Ethan is Horace's son, who Ben helped kill in the Purge. And he had that moment when he closed his eyes. But Ethan survives the purge so the Hostile/Others stole a baby. And.. if Horace is indeed connected to Jacob lineage they may have stolen a descendant of Jacob.
RACHEL: Ohhh good point. So you think that Ben deliberately allowed Ethan to live?
SUSAN: Maybe? I think there's some correlation there. Ben is an adult for the purge right? And he's maybe 12 years older than Ethan?
RACHEL: Yes, he looked exactly as he does now.
SUSAN: So Ethan is maybe, 10ish for the purge? He's old enough to remember. Did he switch to the Hostiles?
RACHEL: But during the purge, Ben looked as he does now - much older than 20s I think. Not necessarily, I just think Ethan may have been much older than 10 for the purge
SUSAN: Hmm but if he's older, he has to make the choice then.
RACHEL: Right - so why did he make the choice he did unless he was taken captive by the hostiles right before the purge happened.
SUSAN: And then slowly became one of them.
RACHEL: Ye but like you said, the effort to keep him alive must mean there's something special about him? Or he hated the Dharma like Ben did.
SUSAN: Or he has a bad relationship with his father like Ben did, because we've already seen Horace drinking.
RACHEL: True, for all we know, he could've helped Ben. Another thing to note about Ethan is his last name. Why isn't it Goodspeed?
SUSAN: What IS Ethan's last name?
RACHEL: Rom. Did he take Amy's last name? Or change it completely after the purge? Another thought, I wonder if that's why Juliet was brought to the island later. Because maybe the last time a baby was successfully conceived and delivered on the island was by Juliet with Ethan and later it's Ethan who goes to recruit Juliet too.
SUSAN: OH! I love that. That would make a lot of sense. I really like that.

Where's Faraday?

SUSAN: So how about Faraday. Is he dead? I had a thought. Maybe Faraday learns to jump time on his own and therefore disappears.
RACHEL: Oh! I like that idea and it makes sense that the others would stay because they're waiting for Locke to come back.
SUSAN: But Faraday's only interest is Charlotte now.
RACHEL: And saving her?
SUSAN: Presumably? We know he was down in.. the mine?
RACHEL: Yes, working where the donkey wheel is located.
SUSAN: Which can't be the hatch because then the hatch would have been next to the greenhouse place.
RACHEL: The donkey wheel is located beneath the Orchid station (just checked Lostpedia) and the hatch is the Swan station.
SUSAN: I forgot where I was going with this. Now I'm thinking maybe he went into the future and passes himself off as Radzinsky.
RACHEL: That would be interesting!

Juliet-Sawyer-Jack-Kate Love Rectangle / Leadership Tension

SUSAN: Juliet and Sawyer and how that bitch Kate might ruin everything.
RACHEL: Omg yes! I went from finding her annoying to seriously disliking her especially the promo for next week. What a homewrecker.
SUSAN: Why doesn't she just go with Jack and be done with it. Juliet and Sawyer are happy dammit.
RACHEL: Exactly! They're just such a good team. The way they've stayed undercover in the Dharma Initiative shows that and their good leadership.
SUSAN: Yes! Now Kate.. with her powers. No, actually, I'm not being fair. It's not just her. Sawyer needs to man up and not act all googly eyed when Kate comes back.
RACHEL: This is very true. He's got a good thing with Juliet. I felt really bad for her.
SUSAN: Yes! She STAYED for him.
RACHEL: Exactly. Plus Kate is so back and forth. Even Sawyer knew that. One minute she wants Jack, the next she wants Sawyer. I wonder if that's why Kate came back or decided to get on the plane - to come back for Sawyer.
SUSAN: But why sleep with Jack if she was coming back for Sawyer?
RACHEL: Because she was upset about leaving behind Aaron? When she's upset, she seems to just jump the nearest guy (Sawyer or Jack). Clearly I don't have a high opinion of Kate lol.
SUSAN: Hahahahaha - she does bounce between them quite a bit.
RACHEL: Yes! She was upset about Sawyer being sick, so she kisses Jack. She was upset about seeing Jack having dinner with Juliet, so she sleeps with Sawyer. When they were stuck in the cage, I think she was just upset in general, so she slept with Sawyer. The point is, she and Jack deserve each other so they should stay together. Which brings me to Sawyer and Jack - definitely a little bit of a leadership showdown there. Until Sawyer pointed it out, I hadn't pinpointed the difference between their leadership styles. But it's so true. Jack just reacted whereas Sawyer seems to think it out and plan.
SUSAN: Yes! Which proves Sawyer is smarter and the one who should get the girl that DOESN'T randomly sleep with another guy when she gets upset.
RACHEL: Exactly! That moment made me think of something you brought up a couple weeks ago. How maybe the person who should have been the leader was Sawyer from the very beginning. Not Jack.
SUSAN: Yes and now he's going to set things right.

Sayid & Young Ben

SUSAN: I'd like to take a moment to go into the headache-inducing time-travel memory lane. Sayid just met Ben which implies, if this has already happened. Ben knew Sayid when he met him and, presumably the other Oceanics.
RACHEL: Or is it like what happened with Desmond? Where he suddenly remembers this new old memory
SUSAN: See, that brings us back to the argument about how this all works because Charlotte remembered Faraday even though he had not gone back in time yet.
RACHEL: True. But maybe that happened because Charlotte's mind was jumping. Not her body and mind like when the island was flashing.
SUSAN: Whoa. Okay so.. if you mind jump you can see things that haven't happened yet but will. And if you body jump you create memories that didn't exist before?.
RACHEL: Maybe? Because she's the only one this has happened with (remembering Faraday). And she's the only one to start mind jumping before dying. And maybe you only mind jump when you're about to die..? Or close to it.
SUSAN: But Desmond mind jumped.
RACHEL: Desmond is special though. Or so everyone keeps saying.
SUSAN: And on that very confusing note ..
RACHEL: Can't wait for next week!

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x09 Namaste: Recap

2009-03-22T19:19:00.006-04:00

In last night's episode:

2007

Our castaways are back on the island, but not all of them are in 1977. Sun, Lapidus, and Ben have landed, with the rest of the Ajira Airways passengers, in 2007. Cesar sees they landed on a runway (!) and there are animal cages nearby. Hearing this, Ben realizes they are on the smaller adjoining island, and takes off quietly to to a place on the beach where he knows there are boats. Sun sees Ben leaving and follows, Lapidus sees Sun leaving and follows. In a clearing, Ben stops and asks Sun why she is following him, Lapidus catches up, and a typical "You shouldn't trust this guy, he's a liar" conversation ensues. Sun pushes to follow Ben, and Lapidus comes along. At the boats, Lapidus is still trying to figure out why Sun trusts Ben, when, with a wonderful little whack, Sun slams Ben in the head with an oar. Sun and Lapidus take off in the boat, leaving the unconcious Ben behind. They arrive at the dock (submarine) at night, and see the trees bend in an odd way, the way we've seen them move with Smokey. Sun says "Must have been an animal". The pair continue on to the Dharma/Others camp, which now, after all of the damage, is falling apart. There seem to be no signs of life, until a light comes on in one of the houses. The doorway opens and Christian greets them. Sun asks about Jin, and Christian takes them inside where there are pictures of the Dharma team from each year they were there. Christian holds out the one from 1977, which shows the rest of the Oceanic Six, and tells Sun and Lapidus they have a long journey ahead of them.

1977

Hurley, Jack, and Kate

After meeting Hurley, Jack, and Kate on the beach, Sawyer returns to his home to get them clothing, and try to figure out how to get them onto the island. In comes Juliet, obviously a bit distraught by these new arrivals, but to help she tells Sawyer a new batch of recruits is coming to the island that day in the sub. Sawyer returns to get the three and get them changed, and tells Jack, Faraday "was" here, but not anymore(!). Juliet goes to Amy to get the sub manifest. While there she plays with Amy's baby, who she and Horace have decided to name Ethan (!). Sawyer gets the three set up at orientation, where none other than our favorite Dharma movie star Pierre sets Jack up with his new job, as a workman, on janitorial duty. Kate's name isn't on the list, and she is nearly found out by Phil the security guy, but Juliet shows up just in time, with a new manifest. Thy then exchange one of the most awkward greetings ever seen on Lost. "Hi, I'm Juliet (and now I'm living with the guy you were so in love last season)" "Hi, I'm Kate (and I had a tumultuous relationship with the guy YOU were so in love with last season, but even though we slept together only last night, I'm not really sure how we feel about each other)". Phil seems to pick up on something being not quite right. We don't learn Hurley and Kate's assignments, but Kate is wearing a blue jumpsuit, similar to the one we've seen Juliet wear. That night Jack is looking for Sawyer's house, and asks Phil where James LaFleur lives. Phil directs him to the house, but advises Jack not to call him James. Then we get another look from Phil that says he's sure something isn't quite right. After knocking on the door, Jack is greeted by Juliet. Yet another awkward moment ensues. At first Jack thinks he has the wrong house, but Juliet lets him in to talk to Sawyer, and exits, probably having filled her quota of awkward moments for the day. Jack gets a little moody ("Hey Sawyer, you're sitting here reading instead of figuring out what's going on here? And hey, why are you living with my old psuedo-girlfriend?") and Sawyer returns the moodiness with a little show of bravado. He tells Jack not to worry, he's got everything covered, and he should be relieved. Jack, as it turns out, says he is relieved. Sawyer follows Jack out, and sees Kate pacing on her porch. He goes all googly-eyed and gives a little wave.

Jin and Sayid

When he hears Sun was on the plane as well, Jin is on a mission to find her. He takes off to a security building where Radzinsky (!) is building a model of the Pearl (which, as it turns out, looks a heck of a lot like a famous design by Buckminster Fuller, genius architect). Radzinsky says he hasn't heard anything about a plane, but Jin threatens him so he calls the Looking Glass station. In the meantime, an alert sounds that a hostile has tripped a motion sensor on Dharma turf. Jin immeditely takes off in that direction, and comes upon Sayid, still bound in handcuffs. Before he and Jin can exchange more than a couple words, Radzinsky shows up with his gun. Jin pretends not to know Sayid and treats him as a hostile. They hold Sayid captive in the security station and call Sawyer. When Sawyer arrives, Radzinsky pushes him to kill Sayid, because he has seen the model for the Pearl. He tells Sawyer its all and act, and he could end it now. Sawyer is intent on sticking to the truce, and forces Sayid to declare himself as a hostile, so they cannot kill him. Sayid is locked in the barracks until Sawyer can figure out what to do with him. Sayid gets a visitor in the barracks. A young boy with glasses and creepy look, who brings him a sandwich, and calls himself Ben (!).

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x08 LaFleur: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-03-06T20:56:00.018-05:00

We're trying out a new format for the ginger ale talks. Today we're going to break it out visually by topics similar to our previous "Friday Morning Extras" post. Here goes:

Sawyer is the new Jack, Miles is the new Sawyer?

SUSAN: So, I can't help thinking that Sawyer has become the leader in the way Jack used to be and Miles has become his Sawyer. Which I think has been done purposefully.
RACHEL: I think so too. Sawyer seemed really at home in the Dharma community and really confident as a leader
SUSAN: I'm wondering if that's how it was SUPPOSED to happen. If Sawyer was meant to be the leader all along but was derailed. Sor tof the way Widmore may have been meant to be the leader, but Ben stepped in.
RACHEL: I think that's possible. It was always Jack (with Kate by his side) leading the pack. Now it's Sawyer and Juliet - who are, by far, better leaders and a better couple!
SUSAN: Yes! Omg they are SO cute - when they exchanged I love yous, I had an uncontrollable AWW.
RACHEL: I know! And the whole, having each other's back was so sweet too. You just know that Jack and Kate are going to make a mess of things now.
SUSAN: Yes. Idiots.

Fertility and pregnancy issues on the Island

RACHEL: Would this be a good time to switch topics? Because of speaking of Juliet - she was able to finally deliver a baby successfully. I think it's also important to note what that intern said - how babies are usually delivered on the mainland. Why is that? and where exactly is mainland? And that also implies that at least when the Dharma Initiative was "in charge", people freely left and came back to the island.
SUSAN: Yes, it seemed like they were free to use the sub and Horace said the sub took them to Tahiti and then they could go from there.
RACHEL: I thought that Horace said that the sub could take them to Tahiti (since they had mentioned being from there). Like if that's where they needed to be. But that wasn't necessarily their normal mainland stop.
SUSAN: OH - damn, now I need to rewatch.

RACHEL: I'm starting to think that the having babies problem is triggered by Ben, starting when he takes over the Dharma Initiative. And because of the way he took over (killing all those people) - this is the punishment.
SUSAN: Yes, the purge. Or the Hostiles can't bear children.
RACHEL: Maybe they (the Hostiles) can't bear children because they "never age" - or at least Alpert doesn't seem to.
SUSAN: Yes, it would make sense.
RACHEL: Again .. I feel like we're onto something here.
SUSAN: So maybe the Hostiles are being punished for something. Remember, awhile back, Dharma said it was trying to save the world from ending. So, if the Hostiles don't like Dharma, and work against it.. that implies they WANT the world to end right?
RACHEL: Right, it does seem like the actions of these two groups affect not just the island but the world. What you're saying goes along with another point made 2 seasons ago. Remember when Desmond first met Eloise Hawking? She told him that if he didn't turn the failsafe key, then "everyone of us will die". And the writers confirmed that by "everyone of us" she meant, everyone in the world.
SUSAN: So the question is, who is REALLY keeping us from dying?
RACHEL: Yes - maybe that person will end up being John Locke
SUSAN: If the Hostiles are trying to make the world end, maybe thats why they can't have kids. Because they are working towards the end of the world. So kids would be sort of a moot point anyway...

RACHEL: True - but what does the world ending mean to them? That everyone outside the island AND not a Hostile are gone? Or like the whole planet blows up or something. Do they want to start the world fresh? Like Noah's Ark style and they're the only survivors? I could actually see their objective being the latter. Cause why would they want to end along with the rest of the world. Seems like they want to be in control.
SUSAN: Interesting. I like where you're going with this. So Alpert is a Noah of sorts.
RACHEL: Exactly - but possibly evil.
SUSAN: I love how everything with this show ends with "but possibly evil"
RACHEL: I know! But that's what makes it so good - so many different shades of grey and different possibilities in general.

Horace Goodspeed

RACHEL: New topic?
SUSAN: Horace Goodspeed!
RACHEL: Good choice! What are your thoughts?
SUSAN: Horace, obviously Egyptian God. Goodspeed, Biblical scholar. But we saw him very long ago helping Ben be brought into this world and getting his dad into Dharma. But where is Horace's wife (Olivia) from the 60s? Did she die during childbirth? And who hired Horace? Is there something larger at play?
RACHEL: I'm thinking Horace's wife from 60s either died OR maybe Saywer wasn't supposed to save Amy therefore changing events. But if that changes events, who helps Ben's mother give birth? Because unless Horace is there, Ben would technically never make it to the island. Though there is always course correcting.
SUSAN: But Ben was born in the 60s, before Sawyer saved Amy.
RACHEL: Oh right! What do you think happened to her? Interesting, according to Lostpedia: "Olivia's last name has not been revealed within the show, however, she was listed as Olivia Goodspeed on ABC's Lost website and it is unclear whether they are married or related by blood."
SUSAN: I remember them as being a clear couple but maybe that's the way I want to remember it, lol.

RACHEL: I remember them as a couple too. But maybe we were just meant to assume that. Also, we've seen Horace Goodspeed semi-recently. We also saw his "spirit" help Locke find Jacob's cabin. He was the one who built it. He said he built it for himself and his wife (Amy?).
SUSAN: That's right. Could Horace have named his son Jacob?
RACHEL: See I was starting to think Horace could be Jacob .. but that's even better! Because they conveniently left out the name of their baby.
SUSAN: Yes, I was waiiiiting. Jacob would be perfect.
RACHEL: Same here. The baby has to be one of the characters we already know of. And it would explain the cabin as well because his father built it.
SUSAN: I like this. So, Horace (may) be the guy we saw in the cabin and he's certainly connected to the cabin. So far, the people we've seen in the cabin (Christian and Claire) have been of the same bloodline. What if Horace is related to Jack somehow.
RACHEL: That's true, he could be.

Random Topics
SUSAN:

It is unclear whether the Canaanites practiced human sacrifice by sacrificing their children, burning them alive, possibly to the god Moloch. A few historical accounts written around the time they were flourishing make this claim, but others don't.

As there does not appear to be a Canaanite god named Moloch, this could be a misspelling of Melqart; of Milcom, a god of the Ammonites; of the Assyro-Babylonian "Malik", or the Palmyran Malach-bel. Moloch is also identified with Baal Hammon in Carthaginian religion.

The main evidence for human sacrifice, other than claims of historians of the time, is the discovery of the graves of many children near certain Punic religious sites in North Africa, such as Carthage. Opponents to the claim of Canaanite human sacrifice suggest that these children died naturally, and point to the few undeveloped foetuses amongst the other dead as evidence for this.

A little off topic - but that's what we do.
RACHEL: Haha yes it is. You think their fertility issues are tied to that?
SUSAN: Maybe? Involuntary sacrifice of children like Passover. Oh I just had another thought. I'm sorry I'm totally unable to stick to any cohesiveness today. 1979 - was Ben quoting that as the day Charolette was born because of her file? Because.. if that's so, maybe she uses 1979, because that's when she went to the mainland when she was, say, 9. Which.. would make her almost 40. So maybe she just looks really young for her age.

RACHEL: True, but that might have to do with the island. Because Widmore told Locke that he had been the leader for 40 years? But we saw him in the 1940s as a 17 and then again with Locke in 2008? I don't think he's in his 70s. Maybe being on the island slows down your aging process because of the time difference..?
SUSAN: Hmmm maybe.

"She moved on and we stayed"
SUSAN: What did Faraday mean when he said Charlotte moved on and the rest of them stayed. Is her body drifting through time? When people die, we say they've "moved on" but he said it in the sense that her body moved on. So her body continues to time jump? And wasn't he touching her? Things they've been touching have gotten carried through.
RACHEL: Maybe they can carry inanimate objects through different times, but not people. Like once you've died in a certain time, you're stuck there? And when he said "moved on" I took it as - moved onto to another life (ie. afterlife). But he was clearly out of it - so he could've meant a number of things. He also seemed to be altering the time travel rules again. Like now that they're stuck in a single time and not jumping - it doesn't matter what they do?

SUSAN: Well I think he's sticking with what he was saying before. He's just more depressed about it. He's saying that it happened as it did and nothing they do will change that. No matter how hard they try.
RACHEL: That's true. Do you think Charlotte's body is still jumping through time?
SUSAN: I'm kind of confused about that one because.. I'm still on our theory that if a person has a physical holder for their spirit, they still exist. So if she lost her physical place card, she's now been wiped from all existence.
RACHEL: Right .. but now Faraday is seemingly in the same time period as child Charlotte. What if he'll be able to alter things? What if she wasn't supposed to die and him trying to stop that from happening is course correction?
SUSAN: Course correction confuses me because we keep hearing you can't change how things happened but then you can. I'm lost.

Dynamite, the Black Rock & Jacob's Cabin

RACHEL: Next topic? Horace having dynamite and where did he get it from?
SUSAN: His response about the black rock was interesting. He said "I can't say that I have" (heard of it).
RACHEL: Yes! When I saw the dynamite, I immediately thought of the Black Rock.
SUSAN: So.. is Horace a victim of smokey and thereby connected to the black rock?
RACHEL: Victim of smokey as in "sick"? He doesn't seem to be displaying any violent tendencies like Rousseau's crew did. He just got drunk so I'm not sure if I think he's a victim. I do think he does know more about that Black Rock than he's letting on to Sawyer. So, is Horace the Dharma leader?
SUSAN: We were meant to assume that right?
RACHEL: I think so. I just thought of something, I'm not sure if it's relevant though. I always assumed Jacob to be one of the Others or Hostiles. Because it seems like Ben and Alpert carry out his orders. But if Horace is Dharma and he built Jacob's cabin..?
SUSAN: Or Jacob took it from him since Horace was killed by the Hostiles in the purge. But I do think he's the "eye" we saw and maybe, the one who said "help me" to Locke. Because technically we don't know WHO said it. Just that Locke heard it.
RACHEL: Yes! I think so too. Because you've seen the screen cap of Jacob right? It's not clear, just a shadow. But you can see the person has sorta longish wavy hair like Horace's.

SUSAN: Yes, so Horace may be a prisoner in the cabin. I think I'm on to something. LIKE if the cabin is the physical placeholder for Horace's spirit then maybe the spirit becomes a prisoner in the placeholder until it can break free, through a spiritual trial or some such. Kind of like the Jewish view that the son of God is still coming and until then people who have died are waiting to get into heaven. So they're kind of.. trapped in their bodies. Only Horace is trapped in the cabin.
RACHEL: I like where you're going with that. It would certainly explain why that person in the cabin said "help me" to Locke. Maybe Locke is really the leader they've been waiting for. Because if Jacob is as all powerful as we've been led to believe, why he ask for help. He just seems to give orders (if Christian is really speaking for him).
SUSAN: Yes.

Faraday

RACHEL: Where is Faraday three years later?
SUSAN: Um hopefully not dead because I'm secretly in love with him. Don't tell Ray.
RACHEL: It'll be our little secret.
SUSAN: lol - He could be in the mines but it's VERY strange no one seemed to as much as mention him.
RACHEL: I'm thinking that's where he is and maybe he's kind of secluded himself from the rest of the group.
SUSAN: Maybe he's doing his best not to do what he did before. Or was going to do..
RACHEL: That's true. But he's probably going to do it anyway. You know what else, remember how he has that notebook full of information. I wonder if a lot of that information came from that period of being a part of Dharma. Maybe they were always supposed to go to that time period.
SUSAN: but if he has a notebook like that, doesn't he know he's been there? Or.. will.. be..
RACHEL: That's true.

Final Comments
SUSAN: What topics do we have left?
RACHEL: (1) Are we really supposed to believe Rose, Bernard, and the rest are just.. gone? (2) How they going to work into their own past, are they going to be part of the group Ben kills? And (3) Was Alpert "waiting" for Locke because he had met Locke before and Sawyer had mentioned him?
SUSAN: Where in the hell is everyone else that stayed on the island. I don't like the assumption made by the writers that, if we don't see them, we'll just sort of forget they exist.
RACHEL: Exactly! They need to address that, especially Rose and Bernard
SUSAN: YES - they were so cute! Then I think the last two topics actually fit together. Maybe they created the "religion" that makes Locke a leader. i.e. Locke is deemed important in the future because he went to the past already being told he was important and therefore told others he was important creating this neverending circle.
RACHEL: Yes, I can definitely see that. But do you think they'll be a part of the group that Ben (and Alpert) purges? Somehow I don't see John allowing that to happen to the Oceanic 6 + other Losties. Because ultimately, it seems like Alpert will follow Locke's orders rather than Ben. Maybe Locke has the power to stop that purge from happening completely.
SUSAN: Remember when the purge happened and Alpert kept telling Ben, "it's not time"? What was he waiting for?
RACHEL: I don't think it was regarding the purge. It was regarding Ben's time to join them. Because he first met Alpert as a kid and officially joined as leader much later.
SUSAN: But what if the actual reason for the purge hasn't happened yet. Like.. Alpert was waiting for something specific or someone specific.
RACHEL: Someone like Locke?
SUSAN: You know what else and it isn't at all on topic but it just occurred to me. Locke was dead, reincarnated when he got to the island. Christian was dead, and his coffin was empty when Jack opened it. So maybe Locke and Christian are the same type of being now, whatever that may be.
RACHEL: That's true! But Locke seems like himself. Whereas with Christian, you get this other-worldly vibe from him. You just know he's speaking on behalf of someone.
SUSAN: Yeah.. maybe we'll get more on that. I think we got through everything? It's so sad no Lost next week.
RACHEL: I know! we should have a free for all theories post or something
SUSAN: YES! Genius!

Free for all theories post coming next week in place of our regular ginger ale talk!

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x08 LaFleur: Recap

2009-03-05T09:08:00.013-05:00

On last night's episode:

We're back on the island with Sawyer tugging an a rope running into the ground, and Locke poised to turn the frozen donkey wheel and save our island friends. Before he can do that though, the crew realizes they are in a time before the well was built, and look out into the distance to see (I'm gonna say, Egyptian-looking) a human-like statue, as tall as a NYC skyscraper, in the distance looking out over the water. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this guy has four toes. FINALLY.

Locke turns the donkey wheel, and the crew experiences a flash unlike the others. When they come out of the flash, their headaches are gone, and their noses are no longer bleeding. Sawyer says they will wait for Locke to return, as long as they need to. They find Faraday, grieving over an empty plot of grass. He notes that Charlotte "moved on" while they "stayed". He informs the group the "skipping record" has been reset, even though they may not be on the song they want to be on. Sawyer because the leader of the band (to Miles' dismay) and begins leading a trek to the beach. En route, they come upon a woman screaming and pleading with two men, who put a burlap bag over her head and hold a gun to her. It appears they have already killed the man she was picnicking with, and she is begging him to say something. Sawyer intervenes, with the knowledge Juliet had his back. One of the men takes a shot at Sawyer, but Juliet shoots him from her spot int he forage, and Sawyer shoots and kills the other man. Sawyer removes the bag from the woman's head. Her name is Amy, and her husband, Paul, is the man lying dead next to her. Amy is very scared about breaking the truce, and says they must bury the bodies of the men Sawyer and Juliet shot, and carry Paul back to her camp. Juliet notes the Dharma Initiative jumpsuit Paul is wearing, which, she says, puts them in the 70's or 80's.

En route to the camp, they come upon none other than the sonic fence. Faraday nearly walks into it, but is stopped by Juliet. Amy seems surprised at Juliet's reaction, and Juliet notes it "appears" to be some sort of sonic fence, and instructs her to turn it off. Amy goes to the control panel, inputs a code, and discreetly removes something without the other's knowledge. She walks through first, unharmed. The others follow, only to be taken down by the fence. Amy then removes the earplugs she'd taken out of the control panel.

Sawyer awakens (with a zoomed in eye shot, think early Lost days) on a couch in the game room of the Dharma camp, lying across from a man named Horace Goodspeed. When asked for a name, Sawyer provides the name James LaFleur. Horace does the usual prodding for information, and Sawyer instructs him he and his crew were on a ship called the Black Rock ("Ever heard of it?" "I can't say that I have.") that crashed offshore. They washed up on the beach, and he will need more time to look for the rest of his missing crew. Horace wants him to leave on the submarine departing the next day.

Sawyer rejoins the group who are eating at a table outside. Faraday is mumbling to himself "I won't do it, I won't say it", but is overtaken when he sees young Charlotte gleefully walking by. Sawyer informs the group they will need to leave on the next departing submarine. When asked about her strange look, Juliet informs Miles she lived in that complex "in that house" for over three years, but all these people were before her time, and that she joined the group after they had overtaken the Dharma group.

A siren sounds, and everyone is shuffled inside. Richard Alpert walks onto the now empty green with a torch, and plants it in the ground. He has come because the truce has been broken. Sawyer decides to go out and speak to him. Richard does not recognize him. Sawyer says he is responsible for the deaths, and gives Richard an honest account of the story. He tells Richard about John Locke, and asks if he buried the Jughead bomb (Richard never answers this). This brings a surprised reaction from Richard, but no information. Richard says he will need something for his people.

Horace and Sawyer go to the infirmary, where Amy is grieving over Paul's body. She agrees to allow them to take the body to Richard, but first removes an ankh necklace from Paul's neck. Horace, seemingly impressed by the way Sawyer has come through for the camp, instructs Sawyer the sub will return in two weeks, and he and his crew may leave then. Sawyer finds Juliet by the submarine dock, she says she is ready to go home, she wants to leave on the sub in the morning, even if the world in 1974 is not the world she wanted to go back to before. Sawyer asks her to just give him two weeks.

THREE YEARS LATER (1977)

In a room with security monitors two men notice Horace drunkenly stumbling and throwing dynamite off the edge of the complex. They reluctantly decide to wake up LaFleur, the head of security. He and Miles drive out to pick up Horace, and bring him back to his home, deciding not to tell anyone about it. Horace now lives with Amy, who is pregnant with Horace's child. She says they had a fight "about Paul", but before she can go into too much detail she goes into labor. In the infirmary, the medical intern says the birth is breach, and she needs a C-section, an operation he has never performed before. Sawyer leaves to get help.

Juliet is found working on one of the (new-looking) VW buses. She is angry Sawyer is asking her to perform a C-section on Amy, with the knowledge she has never successfully been able to help deliver a child on the island. She begrudgingly agrees, and performs the operation. While Sawyer is waiting outside, Jin comes by to tell him they didn't find anyone on grid 133, so Sawyer tells him to start on 134, noting he will look for Locke as long as it takes. Sawyer and Jin are waiting outside the infirmary when Juliet comes out in tears. She tells them it's a boy, and everyone is okay.

Back at Horace's house, Sawyer informs the hungover Horace he missed the birth of his son, and asks why, as drunkenness is out of character for Horace. Horace informs Sawyer of the fight, because he found Paul's ankh necklace in Amy's sock drawer, and wasn't sure if three years was enough time to get over someone. Sawyer tells him the story of him and Kate (without using her name), and that yes, three years is long enough to get over someone. Sawyer grabs a flower on his way home, where he is greeted by Juliet. They kiss and exchange I love yous (and may I say, are just SO adorable together).

In the morning, Sawyer is woken up by a phone call from Jin. He tells Jin, "No, don't bring them here" and lies to Juliet about where he is going. He drives out to meet Jin, and sees Hurley, Jack, and then Kate exit the VW bus. The episode ends with Sawyer staring at Kate.

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com and DarkUFO Screencaps

Friday Morning Extras

2009-02-27T10:25:00.003-05:00

Flight 316
SUSAN: My mom had an amazing idea about Lost that I have to share. Remember how everyone took different roles on the plane? Jack was Jack. Ben was Hurley. Hurley was Charlie. Sayid was Kate. And who was Kate?
RACHEL: I've read possibly Claire.
SUSAN: Yes! That's what she was saying! She suggested that's why she slept with Jack.
RACHEL: ohHhhh! To get pregnant?
SUSAN: Yes!
RACHEL: That is a great idea! I didn't think of it like that.
SUSAN: Me neither, but it makes a lot of sense.

Two new characters
SUSAN: I also had another thought - Cesar and Ilana are obviously special. What if the reason we've been introduced to a man and a woman and only that is because they are Adam and Eve.
RACHEL: Hmm interesting. That implies that they would have to eventually time jump too right? Because when the original Losties found them, their bodies had already deteriorated. Unless they're already in the past.

New Castaways, Oceanic 6 and Time Jumping
SUSAN: I'm of the idea that they're all in the 70s right now and they're all going to jump together.
RACHEL: I think they're all in the 70s too. But I did notice something. Remember when Caesar described to Locke how Hurley disappeared during the flash on the plane? Which is supposed to happen since we've been seeing the ones left behind on the island. So did the Oceanic 6 disappear with the flash because they're "special"? But not Lapidus, Ben or Locke? It seems like they crashed with the plane.
SUSAN: Well, Locke appeared in the water. I think that was supposed to be a reference to baptism. Ilana said there was a man in a suit standing in the water and no one knew how he got there.
RACHEL: Oh that's right. I guess what I'm saying is .. do only "special" people time jump with the flash? Or do you need to be on the island for a certain amount of time for that to take effect.
SUSAN: I want to say they all do because I'm still convinced Lapidus took the boat with Sun. And if that's the case, Sun is in the same time period as the other crashers. And so they're all jumping together, or she isn't special,
RACHEL: I think Sun is the woman with him also. I do think they're all in the same time right now and all jumping together too. But only the Oceanic 6 did (or do) the disappearing thing.

Rose and Bernard
RACHEL: You know what else I want to know - where are Rose and Bernard?
SUSAN: Yes, good question. Are we to assume they're following Sawyer and them around? Or they died at the flaming arrows?
RACHEL: I don't think they died at the flaming arrows.. but I don't think they're following Sawyer and them around either. Not all the red shirts died right? Maybe they've set up camp somewhere or something. It's just weird. Because no one seems to be wondering about them and they should be getting bloody noses too by now.
SUSAN: It's very strange how they let that drop. Let's write JJ Abrams an email. "Dear JJ, Can we call you JJ? We're just wondering why you assume we're stupid, and would easily forget about main characters who suddenly stopped appearing in episodes. Thanks."
RACHEL: I think that's an email worthy of an answer from JJ Abrams.
SUSAN: Definitely. I wonder what sort of reply we'd get...
RACHEL: I'm not sure - but I'd be willing to forgive and forget if he gave us more shirtless Sawyer.
SUSAN: Point well made.

The name Simon

It's interesting to note the name of the meat market where John Locke's body was being held, Simon's. Here are a few interesting facts about Simon:

Simon is a common Hebrew name that means "God has heard"
Simon the Tanner is a coptic orthodox saint believed to have been bald (with hair only on the back of his head). He is credited with moving the Mokattam Mountain in Cairo, through his strong faith in God.
Simeon was the second son of Jacob and Leah, according to the Bible. Benjamin was his half-brother, the second son of Jacob and Rachel. According to the story of Joseph, Simeon was jealous of his brother and wished to have him murdered, only to find out he had been sold into slavery. (As a side note, Rachel died right after giving birth to Benjamin, whose name means "son of my pain")
Simon is a common name in the Bible, being a leper, an apostle (Simon Peter). Simon helps Jesus carry the cross in every gospel except for John.
Saint Peter (Simon Peter) is often depicted in art as holding the keys to heaven. He is known for denying Jesus three times. He is strongly involved in the story of the resurrection of Jesus, being the first to enter the empty tomb, and was the first to see the risen Jesus.
Simon is a main character in Lord of the Flies. When the group that is stranded on the island divides into two tribes, Simon joins Ralph's (rather than Jack's) tribe. He has a conversation with the head of a dead pig on a stick covered in flies, which tells him the "beast" the children had feared on the island was inside them, and created by them. Shortly thereafter Simon is killed by Jack's tribe.

5x07 The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-02-26T19:32:00.014-05:00

RACHEL: Official Lost discussion starts now. First topic - Locke / Tunisia / Widmore. So we found out from Widmore that Tunisia is the "exit" point from the Island and that he's been watching it (which made me wonder if he saw Ben when he exited the Island). And then he tells Locke his side of the "war". That he used to be the leader but was exiled somehow by Ben. I kind of got the impression that he didn't know the Island time-traveled until much later (after he was "the leader") because he was so fascinated by the time difference. 4 days for Locke, 40 or so years for him. And also, why did Ben take the island from Widmore? Does that mean it happened after the Purge and Widmore somehow survived it? But at the same time, we saw Alpert help Ben to become a leader. So does that mean Alpert felt it was Widmore's time to step down?

SUSAN: I was wondering the same thing about Widmore seeing Ben but I don't remember seeing cameras when Ben landed. So why would Widmore set them up after Ben arrives? Is this a writing glitch or is there really something to this?

RACHEL: I don't remember cameras either. Because I was just thinking, he knew Ben wasn't on the Island since Ben visited him saying he was going to kill Penny. But based on his discussion with Locke, he didn't seem to know the exact circumstances. That Ben had willing moved the Island and exiled himself. Because if Widmore did have an idea of the circumstances.. maybe that's why he set up the cameras afterward. Since if Ben left.. then others might follow. Like Locke.

SUSAN: That's a good theory - he was genuinely looking for Locke.

RACHEL: He seemed to be. But was he looking for Locke to truly help him or to just further his own cause?

SUSAN: Well, that's the question. Is there good and evil and which is which?

RACHEL: Right. Or maybe both Widmore and Ben are both evil men who will do anything to gain back their status as Leader while John is the only good one and a pawn in their efforts. It seems like they're both playing him in some way.

SUSAN: Yes. Although - my heart was with Widmore last night. But Ben always confuses me. I mean, he killed Locke but Locke did reincarnate on the island.

RACHEL: Same here, I was on Widmore's side. But I did read an interesting thought about Ben killing Locke. That maybe in this strange way Ben was trying to save Locke. Since (according Catholic/Christian teachings) committing suicide is a sin and means you won't go to heaven. I'm not sure if I necessarily buy that theory but it's an interesting take on it. When I saw the scene, it seemed like as soon as Locke said "Eloise Hawking" Ben just snapped.

SUSAN: Yes, I think Ben was waiting for info on how to get back to the island. But you make a good point, about the suicide. But.. if we're going by Christian teachings, wouldn't murder preclude Ben from getting to the island?

RACHEL: It depends. Is the island their "heaven"? But the writers said it wouldn't be a heaven/hell/purgatory thing. Or maybe the island isn't done with Ben yet either. So that's why he needed to go back. Also.. based on what he said about missing Locke, it didn't seem like he knew that he'd come back to life on the island. Maybe the island is giving Locke a chance to get revenge.

SUSAN: Writers also lie. And yes, I noticed that too. But Eloise knew they needed a body for Christian. So Ben didn't know he needed a body until Eloise told him and then had to pick him up from the morgue? Or is it just convenient that Eloise said "oh we need a body" and that's why Ben showed up at the funeral home where Jack was.

RACHEL: I kept waiting for Locke to tell him that Alpert said he had to die. I kinda feel like that's the case (the latter scenario). Locke was conveniently dead and would probably help Ben to convince the others (namely Jack).

SUSAN: I'm leaning towards giving Ben official bad guy status.

RACHEL: Same here. I think he just wants to be the leader of the Others. BUT then I think, if that's the case.. why didn't he just let Locke turn the wheel to begin with.

SUSAN: Although, remember when he [Jack] was asked if Locke was really dead? He gave his funny "I'm not telling you the whole truth" face and avoided answering altogether.

RACHEL: That's true, I forgot about that. Then maybe he did know Locke would come back to life on the island. But maybe he didn't know that at the time (when he killed Locke). Maybe he found out later from Eloise. If he did see in fact see Eloise afterward.

SUSAN: Something is fuzzy here. It could be, and I'm just throwing this out there, that Ben is in fact a good guy who intended to sacrifice himself. And he's going to miss Locke, because he knows he will not be permitted to live long on the island after returning.

RACHEL: That's true! I mean once it gets out that Ben killed Locke .. I doubt any of them will trust him again. Did you notice how both Ben and Widmore said the exact same things to Locke at the beginning and end of the episode? They both tell Locke that he's special and important to the survival of the island. They've both been watching the Oceanic 6 to "protect them". They both claim to be doing what's best for the island.

SUSAN: Yes. That makes sense because they're both trying to get what they want. The question is, who wants good things or are they both selfish bastards.

RACHEL: I kind of want to say they're both selfish bastards. That John being important to the island is actually true and they're each exploiting that fact because they both want gain control of the island.

SUSAN: But Jacob seems to favor Ben and isn't Jacob basically the island?

RACHEL: Does he favor Ben? If he did, wouldn't Ben still be the leader. And if Christian is Jacob or speaking for Jacob, he did say that listening to Ben is never a good idea.

SUSAN: True, I guess we never heard Jacob tell Ben to move the island. So we don't know what he actually said. I think it would make sense if Ben was more removable too because he wasn't written as a regular character originally. So if he weren't the true leader, it would make more sense. Also (somewhat on point) I looked up Tunisia last night and it was the sit of a major battle in WWII in 1943. Apparently it was a huge axis/allies point and the allies had to retreat before ultimately taking the area. It's often overshadowed by Stalingrad but it is noted as the first battle to truly unite America, England, and France. I think it might be a hint towards how WWII mixes with the storyline. If the exit is in Tunisia then the allies could have troops on the island that were shuffled in through the exit or some such. I haven't totally worked through the details of this theory yet but I think its very important that Tunisia was such a big point in the war in 1943 and then we started using nuclear weaponry in 1945. That's big because that's when we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 1943 is (I think) when America entered WWII.

RACHEL: Wait 1943? That's around when Widmore was there - in 1945. And there was that hydrogen bomb on the island brought by troops that somehow found it [it being the island].

SUSAN: Maybe those troops were set up there in 1943. Maybe the island is in fact a war outpost which would explain the security guard smokey. In fact, tunisia has a long history of being central in wars. Like with Carthage. So maybe its been a war outpost in different ways for centuries.

RACHEL: True. And they (the troops) just never realized the full capabilities of the island (like time travel)? Or you think it was chosen precisely for that reason?

SUSAN: Well, I'm not sure they understood how to harness it but I think they understood the magnetic pull. The way Rose and Bernard went to that place in Australia that was "special." You know, since we're on this war thing. Charlotte spoke Korean and that was TOTALLY unexplained. But there was the Korean War.

RACHEL: I know! I hope they explain that eventually. But that's a good point.. and Ben speaks/understands another language. When he "exited" he spoke to those men in .. Arabic?

SUSAN: Farsi maybe? Let me look up Tunisian languages.

"Arabic is Tunisia's official language. However, as is the case in the rest of the Arab world, a vernacular form of Arabic is used by the public. In Tunisia, the dialect is Tunisian Arabic, which is closely related to the Maltese language.[25] There is also a small minority of speakers of Shelha, a Berber language.[26] French also plays a major role in the country, despite having no official status. It is widely used in education (e.g. as the language of instruction in the sciences in secondary school), the press, and in business. Most educated Tunisians are able to speak it. Many Tunisians, particularly those residing in large urban areas, readily mix Tunisian Arabic with French." [source]

Oh now THAT is interesting. Look at this:

"Most authors who write novels or short stories prefer to write in standard Arabic or in French. In some cases, the dialogue in a novel will be in Tunisian Arabic, but the main narrative will be in standard Arabic. An exception is Hedi Balegh, who has published collections of Tunisian proverbs and translated The Little Prince into Tunisian Arabic." [source]

RACHEL: The Little Prince! Also since you mentioned Charlotte speaking Korean. I decided to wikipedia Tunisia and Korea.

"Though Korea had a long history of trading contact with the Arab world by means of intermediaries, there were no recorded Korean visitors before 1959, when two Korean Muslims went to Mecca for the hajj. By 1977, migrants to Saudi Arabia alone composed nearly one-fifth of all registered emigration from South Korea, making it the third-most popular destination for emigrants." [source]

"There are also Korean weekend schools in Mauritania (Nouadhibou), Morocco (Rabat and Agadir) and Tunisia (Tunis)." [source]

SUSAN: oooOOooo. I think Lost has more war and geography themes than we tend to give it credit for. The geography is just too good. So. Can we talk about Abbadon as Walt now? Because I can't decide if I'm really upset about how things went down. It was curious how he walked away [during the conversation between Locke & Walt].

RACHEL: It was but at the same time, he wasn't involved in any of the conversations Locke had. He kept away for all of them.

SUSAN: But he never made a point of leaving any besides that one.

RACHEL: True. But if Abbadon is Walt - so he's traveled from the future and has decided to just live in the past? At the same time as his younger self or does he go back and forth all the time for various lengths of time?

SUSAN: My guess is going back and forth. He knows when he needs to be present.

RACHEL: That's possible. You know, I'm not sure if he's really dead. I still think he's going to come back somehow

SUSAN: I got that feeling too. I feel like he CAN'T die. Like.. he lives outside of our understanding of human life?

RACHEL: It seems that way. Especially he told Locke that he helps people get to where they need to be. I got this mystical vibe from that statement. I mean if Miles can talk to dead people and John can be brought back to life. Then they can do something about Abaddon.

SUSAN: That's true. I hope we get an Abbadon episode. It seems he and Hawking are alike right? Is there some sort of secret order for these people?

RACHEL: Maybe? Abbadon, Hawking, Widmore, Ben, Alpert - they all seem connected or a part of something. My coworkers were saying how it felt like they were the "first class" or first round of leaders. But maybe Locke and the Oceanic 6 are supposed to take over. Like be their successors in a way.

SUSAN: Ohhh, that's an interesting idea. Like they're the ex-presidents.

RACHEL: Yes, I thought so too. But maybe they don't want to be ex-presidents. Maybe they want to stay in control. Hence this war.

SUSAN: Elders vs. Youngins.

RACHEL: Right. Like the assumption so far has been a Ben vs. Widmore war. But maybe it's more complicated than that.

SUSAN: I see that - it's a little Heroe-ish though.

RACHEL: That's true. New topic? What about the two new characters - Caesar and Ilana.

SUSAN: Caesar is obvious right? So now we're alluding to Roman rulers.

RACHEL: Yes! There's something strange about that character. He found the Dharma Station pretty quickly, took charge (right?), seemed to be looking for something AND hid that gun.

SUSAN: Caesar does seem to be up to something. There's definitely more to his backstory. And I feel like, if they're introducing new characters this late in the game, they must be worth something. Because with only a season and a half left, they can't expect us to accept them as main characters and latch onto them. Maybe a Caesar of the past even.

RACHEL: Exactly! I think he's another person connected to the island.

SUSAN: You know it just popped into my mind - Caesar was introduced in the same episode where Walt said he saw John surrounded by people who wanted to do him harm. Like Julius Caesar getting stabbed in the back by the people he trusted. I might be having a grasping at straws sort of day.

RACHEL: No, that's a good point! I assumed the moment happened already (in the beginning of the episode) but they didn't want to harm him at the time

SUSAN: So maybe their fear of the unknown that is Locke will stir desire to hurt him.

RACHEL: True. Off topic but I'm reading Lostpedia's recap/notes on the episode and I didn't catch this - "Caesar finds Faraday's map to the Tempest and a page of his journal." I noticed he found something but I didn't realize it was that. Why would Faraday leave it there?

SUSAN: Whoa, how did we miss that? Me neither. So then Faraday has been in the past and worked there? Well, we know he's been in the past.

RACHEL: Yes, along with Jin who was wearing a Dharma outfit. So I assumed that when the plane landed, they were in that time but maybe they're not?

SUSAN: Okay if the others time jumped.. This only makes sense if Sun also time jumped. But the people said the pilot left with a woman on the boat. I assumed the woman to be Sun. Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid (and even though we haven't seen him) did. Even if Ben and Lapidus are exempt because they weren't the Oceanic Six. Why Sun? Unless the woman wasn't Sun. Now I've just gotten myself in a jumble.

RACHEL: I think the woman was Sun too. Because only Sun and Lapidus would know where they are. But yes, what about Sayid? Wouldn't he have gone with them? But I see what you're saying. They (the original people) should have all jumped to the same time together.

SUSAN: Yes I think either they all jumped or.. Sun and Lapidus are special. And Ben.

RACHEL: I think they all jumped except the station that they were in looked abadoned.. and if they were in the Dharma Initiative time, it probably wouldn't look that way. Another good question Lostpedia brings up - If Charles was leader for 30 years would this mean that Penelope was born/conceived on the island?

SUSAN: Must be, right? Or else she'd be about 10 years old. But wait, how can she be from the island and no know?

RACHEL: Exactly! Unless Widmore led a double life - one on the island and one off of it. Because they mentioned that certain people had that privilege .. of being able to leave the island.

SUSAN: Yes like Ben did and Richard Alpert.

RACHEL: Interesting. That sort of supports the theory that Widmore is Faraday's father. Maybe he had a life with Ellie (or whoever) on the island and had Faraday. And another life off the island with Penelope's mother.

SUSAN: Not a bad conclusion!

RACHEL: Yes because them being full siblings doesn't seem possible. But half? I could see that.

SUSAN: Yes, definitely possible. Although I have to say here - I'm STILL not convinced she's Faraday's mother. I want there to be something there

RACHEL: Yes I think there's a chance that she might not be his mother. So, any other topics?

SUSAN: We got through most! Good talk today!

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x07 The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham: Recap

2009-02-26T10:55:00.010-05:00

In last night's episode:

We learned the Ajira Airways flight did crash, and the survivors have set up camp on the beach. A survivor named Cesar (we remember him as saying "Sorry for your loss" to Jack at the ticket counter) finds a shelter containing documents with Dharma symbols. He reads through them. He also finds a gun, but does not admit this to Ilana (we remember her as the marshall with Sayid on the plane). Locke, appearing in the water donning a suit, creates a bit of a stir amongst the survivors. No one remembers him being on the plane, and he is rather well-dressed. Locke admits to Ilana, and then Cesar, separately, that he does not remember being on the plane, but can guess as to how he got there, and why he was wearing a suit. He explains he remembers dying, and believes he was to be buried in the suit.

We also learn the pilot and "a woman" took the passenger list and one of the three boats that were found on the beach The survivors are also curious about some of the passengers that seemed to disappear before the plane went down. Cesar describes a "large man with curly hair" to Locke, who was there one minute and gone the next in a flash of light. Cesar takes Locke to see the injured, where he sees Ben (who is sleeping), noting "He's the man that killed me."

In flashbacks, we see what happened to Locke after he turned the frozen donkey wheel:

Locke arrives in Tunisia, away from civilization. The only thing he sees is a camera, focused on where he lay, and a number of poles carrying power and presumably the signal from the camera. He cannot walk, as he suffered a compound fracture from falling down the well. He calls for help, but it is night (and presumably hours later) when help arrives. Four men speaking a language Locke does not understand carrying him to a flatbed pickup truck and drive off. At the hospital it is communicated to him by gestures to swallow pills (it is unknown what is in them) and bite down on a stick. We can see Matthew Abbaddon standing off to the side, watching. The doctor sets Locke's leg, and the extreme pain causes him to pass out.

Locke wakes up to see Charles Widmore at his bedside. Widmore explains how he had a more experienced doctor re-set Locke's leg. Locke does not recognize Widmore, and Widmore explains he met Locke when he was 17, on the island. He appears fascinated that Locke has not changed a bit, and Widmore has aged by over forty years. Locke explains that for him, it has only been four days since he met young Widmore.

During his talks with Widmore, Locke learns the camera was set up at that spot on Tunisia because that is the "exit". Widmore knows this because Ben tricked him into leaving many years ago, because Widmore was the leader of the people we know as the Others. Widmore claims to want to do anything he can to get Locke back to the island, because it is important he be there to lead, because "a war is coming". Widmore says he only sent his people there for Ben, because Ben had to be stopped. Locke explains how Richard Alpert told him he must die, but Widmore says he will do anything he can to keep this from happening. Widmore provides Locke with a driver, Matthew Abbaddon, to help him find his friends who have returned, and get back to the island.

Locke's visits:

First, Locke visits Sayid, who is building a school in Santo Domingo. It appears he is a volunteer. Sayid explains how he had worked for, and been tricked by Ben. He says he was able to be married to the love of his life for 9 months, and it was the happiest 9 months of his life. He refuses to return to the island with Locke, and invites him to help him build, to "do some real good".

Second, Locke visits Walt as he is getting out of school. Matthew Abaddon walks to the side to give them some "privacy". Walt is happy to see Lock, he says he's been dreaming about him, in a suit on the island with people around him (that want to hurt him). He seems happy, and Locke chooses to tell him he just wanted to see him, rather than encourage him to return to the island. When asked about this, he tells Abaddon "He's been through so much." Locke told Walt the last he'd heard about his father, Michael, was that he was on a barge off the island.

Third, Locke visits Hurley in the mental institution. First Hurley believes Locke is dead, because he has been visited by people who died on the island. After Hurley becomes convinced Locke is alive, he alerts Locke they are being watched by Abaddon. Locke insists Abaddon is one of the good guys, and he needs to get everyone back to the island. Hurley becomes flustered, noting how he had encountered Abaddon when he claimed to work for Oceanic Airlines and visited him in the institution. Hurley shuts down, and gets the nurses to take him inside.

Fourth, Locke visits Kate. They talk in her kitchen, and she refuses to return to the island. She comments on how much wanted to stay on the island, and suggests it is because he didn't love anyone. He tells her about Helen, the woman he loved, but how it didn't work out.

Locke had been asking Abaddon to find Helen. After visiting Kate, Abaddon brings Locke to a cemetary, to Helen's grave. He says she died of a brain aneurysm. He tells Locke Helen is where she is supposed to be, and the island is where he is supposed to be, and anything he's done or does will lead him tot he island. Abaddon says its his job to get people where they need to go, saying "I'm just a driver". After helping Locke into the car, Abaddon is shot multiple times but a shooter off-camera. Locke gets into the driver's seat and quickly pulls away, only to crash at the next intersection.

Knocked unconcious by the crash, Locke is brought to Jack's hospital. He awakens to see Jack sitting next to his bed. Locke tells him he needs his help to get everyone back to the island ("You're supposed to help me"). Jack refuses, and then Locke tells him his father says hi. He tells Jack how he deduced Christian was his father, and Jack insists his father is dead, and storms out.

Defeated, we see Locke in an unkempt room. He writes his note to Jack ("I wish you had believed me") and puts it in his pocket. He takes out a bag with an extension cord, knocks out the ceiling, and prepares to hang himself. As he is about to do so, Ben comes charging in and stops him.

Ben admits to killing Abaddon, in order to protect Locke. He emplores him not to commit suicide, and Locke, in tears, removes the cord from his neck. Locke tells Ben why he didn't visit Sun, because Jin had asked him not to bring her back, and had given Locke his wedding ring as proof he had washed up dead on shore. Locke explains to Ben what he was told, how to get back to the island. Locke tells Ben about getting the people who left the island together, and meeting with Eloise Hawking. After hearing mention of Eloise Hawking, Ben takes the cord and strangles Locke. He sets up the room to look like Locke hung himself and says he will really miss Locke, before leaving.

Written by Susan
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x06 316: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-02-20T20:57:00.011-05:00

RACHEL: Ready to discuss Lost?

SUSAN: Yes! You choose our first topic.

RACHEL: I choose - Eloise Hawking! So, is Hawking really Faraday's mother and who is this great man that she keeps talking about? I'm still inclined to believe that she's Faraday's mother. All signs seem to point towards that -- especially with Desmond delivering that message specifically to her. She didn't deny it but at the same time, I do think there could be a slight chance that she's not. Because she didn't seem to react at all to what Desmond said.

SUSAN: She got a sly look on her face and seeing as how she's Ben's buddy, I think she could just be using the misinterpretation to her advantage.

RACHEL: That's true. But she also seems to acknowledge that Ben is a liar which he didn't seem to appreciate.

SUSAN: And just like Ben, she seems to have her own agenda which may make her a liar too.

RACHEL: True and I agree, I think she does have her own agenda. Like, she never explained her reasons for helping the Oceanic 6 get back or how she knows about that Dharma station. Why is she in charge of it?

SUSAN: Yes, and why is she so concerned with "unpredictable" outcomes? The implication is, she knows how things have already gone and she wants to make sure they stay that way.

RACHEL: Knows how things have already gone.. in the past? or in the future?

SUSAN: Well.. that's just a can of worms right there. She has been hinting at having knowledge of the future because she claims to be able to "predict" outcomes, and knows that the island is not finished with Jack or Desmond.

RACHEL: Actually, in general various Others seem to have this knowledge. Tom said the same thing to Michael last season when he was trying to kill himself. Does Jacob send them this message to pass on?

SUSAN: Was Tom really there? This is a big question of how people appear, and then have this knowledge. Walt said similar things to Locke when he was in the pit of dead people. But he was technically on mainland and not the island. Or was he... There are a lot of "apparitions" that seem to know the future. Claire told Kate not to let Aaron go back to the island. Christian when Michael was blowing up the boat.

RACHEL: Charlie! He said the same thing to Hurley at the mental institution, again as an apparition. So who are the apparitions and who are real .. and why/how do they have this knowledge.

SUSAN: OH - he did! I was just thinking about all we learned about Egypt last week - that one part about after death, the spirit needing a physical marker to exist. What if that explains the shoes and the guitar case? Maybe Charlie was the one who convinced Hurley to get on the plane and Hurley brought his guitar case, in order to carry his spirit.

RACHEL: Yes! I've heard that (on different forums) about Charlie being the one who told Hurley to get on the plane. Which makes sense. We've seen Hurley listen to "apparitions" before (like Ana Lucia in the 2nd episode). But I was also thinking he brought the guitar case to replicate the circumstances of the first flight (since Charlie had a guitar with him).

SUSAN: Speaking of - didn't Ana Lucia say something to the extent of "Don't get arrested"? And then.. he did get arrested.

RACHEL: Yes and he willingly let himself be arrested. But he did that to avoid Ben since Sayid told him not to trust him.

SUSAN: Interesting. So he chose to listen to Sayid rather than Ana Lucia. He chose corporeal advice over spiritual. Maybe that's significant.

RACHEL: That could be. Or his fear/distrust of Ben outweighs everything else because he definitely freaked out when he saw Ben coming onto the plane.

SUSAN: Yes, what did he say? "He's not supposed to be here." Is Ben's traveling back to the island with them violating something? Is Ben so overcome with desire to be on the island that he will destroy the timeline to get there?

RACHEL: I don't think so, because like Hawking said.. they needed to recreate the circumstances of the first flight as closely as possible. So Ben running in at the last minute and thanking them for keeping the door open - that mimicked what happened with Hurley during on Flight815. Hurley & the guitar - Charlie; Sayid & the US Marshall - Kate; Sun holding Jin's ring - Rose holding Bernard's ring.

SUSAN: So... who is doing what Sun was doing? And who is pregnant like Claire?

RACHEL: I'm not sure, I was wondering the same thing. Though I don't think we ever saw what Sun was doing.

SUSAN: You know that guy, that said sorry for your loss. Someone said that but I don't remember who. Before the original flight..

RACHEL: I remember it happening also. Even Jack looked a little startled like he was experiencing deja vu. Was it Ana Lucia who said that to Jack? I don't think we've seen the last of that guy or the US marshall though. Especially the guy since they seemed to be focusing on him. And now that we've gotten completely off-topic as usual Should we try to address that other thing about Eloise Hawking -- who is this great man that she kept referring to? It's very convenient that she never said his actual name. My guess is Faraday. What do you think?

SUSAN: It IS very convenient. I keep wavering between Faraday and the guy that does the Dharma videos. But I like Faraday for it, because I have a great idea for a storyline if it is him. And Eloise KNOWS he will become this great man. So she raises him as her son even though he might not be. Hence the sly-ness.

RACHEL: Yeah, I like the idea of Faraday being that person. And maybe the reason why she had that sly look on her face or why she didn't seem fazed by Desmond's statement.. is because she already knew. 'Cause like we said earlier, she does seem to know what's going to happen. Maybe things are falling into place, just as they should.

SUSAN: Which can bring us to our next point. Does she then know, since Desmond was led there, Ben is going to make a little visit to Penny?

RACHEL: Ah, that's possible. Another interesting thing to note .. Damon Lindelof described Eloise as being a "temporal policeman". Maybe that's why she seems to know everything. It's just.. how does she know it?

SUSAN: Have you ever read Narnia? I haven't, but I've been reading this whole lamp post thing is a creation of C.S. Lewis.

RACHEL: Yes it is. I haven't read all the books but I have read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. And there's this lamp post which sort of acts as the midway point between the real world and Narnia.

SUSAN: Is there a character that guards it?

RACHEL: I don't remember there being a guard per se. But when Lucy Pevensie first travels to Narnia, she meets a Faun at the Lamp Post.

SUSAN: A talking faun? Are there any comparisons that can be made between the faun and Eloise?

RACHEL: I don't think so? At first he seemed like a bad guy because he puts Lucy under a spell so he can turn her over to the White Witch (since that was the law). But then he has a change of heart and lets her go.

SUSAN: The White Witch rules Narnia? Is there someone that opposes her? Like a sister.

RACHEL: Yes, she's the evil witch that rules Narnia and because of her, it's always winter. The person who opposes her is Aslan, a lion. Here's the thing. That specific story by C.S. Lewis features a very blatant allegory to Christ's crucifixion. In fact the story in general has a lot of Christian undertones. And now that I'm thinking about it.. Aslan could be seen as John Locke. Because Lucy's brother, Edmund, turned out to a traitor and worked with the White Witch. By law, he was supposed to be sentenced to death but Aslan sacrifices himself for Edmund and willing takes his place. He is then killed on the Stone Table. The two Pevensie sisters (Lucy and Susan) witness this and go to take care of his body when he rises from the dead. He comes back to life because of his sacrifice.

SUSAN: That fits perfectly.

RACHEL: But who's the traitor - Jack? Ben? Eventually Edmund becomes a good person and sees the error of his ways.

SUSAN: Well who is the White Witch? So we have a brother and two sisters?

RACHEL: There's four of them, two brothers & two sisters. Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy.

SUSAN: Jack and Claire are brother and sister. I don't really know where I'm going with this to be honest.

RACHEL: Hah, I'm not sure where to go with it either. But I guess it'll be good to just keep C.S. Lewis and Narnia in mind as possible references.

SUSAN: What if we're looking at the wrong group? What if we should be looking at Ben, Widmore, Eloise... as the kids. Because.. they end up ruling Narnia right? I got that much from the commercials for the movie lol.

RACHEL: lol - Yeah they end up becoming the rulers of Narnia and "grow up there". Until they're like teenagers/young adults. But then they stumble upon the wardrobe again and go through it back to the "real world" and they go back to their younger selves. To the exact same age they were when they first entered Narnia.

RACHEL: (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Eloise_Hawking -- All the info Lostpedia has on Eloise.)

SUSAN: Her last words to Desmond were that pressing the button is the only great thing he will ever do in his life. I don't like how all these things assume Faraday is her son. Like.. assume to be fact. As far as I understand it, its not fact yet.

RACHEL: If that is the only great thing he will ever do, then why isn't the island done with him? There's no button to push anymore.

SUSAN: Is there ANOTHER button? LOL, maybe it's a button factory, the island. Okay new topic: Is Penny dead?

RACHEL: I don't know if I think she's dead or not.. but I do think that Ben went after them (Penny & Desmond). I don't really see Ben overtaking Desmond though.

SUSAN: There was obviously a scuffle. If Desmond was there. My belief is, he got someone. Whether it was Penny or Charlie, I don't know. I think we're going to learn a lot when that reveal comes up though because I think the details of that night are really going to point to Ben's true character and motivations.

RACHEL: That's true. But even then, it's still so hard to pinpoint if Ben is good or bad. Because on the plane, when Jack asked him about the other people on the plane & what would happen to them -- Ben says "Who cares". But at the same time, claims to have done so much to protect the Oceanic 6 and that he's one of the good guys.

SUSAN: He seems to be working very hard to maintain this "predictable" order, whatever that may be.

RACHEL: Yes, him and Eloise. Which just made me think of something. Remember how Ben told Widmore that he changed the rules? If Ben and Eloise are working together to maintain this predictable order. Is Widmore trying to change it then? I think maybe he is. 'Cause he's definitely not on Ben's side.

SUSAN: ooOOoo - but he did direct Desmond to Eloise. It would be ironic if he directed Desmond to Eloise and that caused the death of his daughter.

RACHEL: Hmm, since he did direct Desmond to Eloise .. he must not realize she's working with Ben. Otherwise, he wouldn't have given Desmond that information.

SUSAN: True, which actually gives more credence to the Ellie/Widmore being the parents of Faraday theory. Because he obviously knew about her but has no current contact with her life. Sort of like.. say.. a divorced couple?

RACHEL: Very true.

SUSAN: New topic? How about.. Aaron? Where is he, and why did Kate need to get all creepy talking about it?

RACHEL: I think she may have gotten all creepy talking because she really doesn't want anyone to know where he is. Because when Claire appeared to her, she said "Don't you dare bring him back!" I think knowing that Jack was willing to work with Ben might make her distrustful of him. Even on the plane, she made that comment about how even though they're all there, they're not necessarily together. As to where he is.. I have no idea. Maybe her mother? Claire's mother? I read somewhere that maybe she brought him to Desmond & Penny.

SUSAN: But if she had, why would she keep that from Jack? to keep him away from Aaron? Her whole "If you want me to get on that plane you'll never ask me that question again" was a bit of an over-reaction, no? I mean, why not just say, I don't want to tell you.

RACHEL: Right. And so there's chance of him [Jack] accidentally telling anyone, like Ben. Oh! And another idea as to where Aaron could be. Remember last season, when Sawyer whispered into Kate's ear about a favor? I personally assumed the favor had to do with his daughter and the mother. We saw Kate trying to carry out that promise. Maybe she left Aaron with her.

SUSAN: So.. I missed him having a daughter.

RACHEL: Remember that woman he conned - Cassidy? At one point, she even crosses paths with Kate pre-island. To help her talk to her mother in hospital. She told Kate about what happened with Sawyer and about getting pregnant but left out his name. Then during a later episode, when Sawyer was in prison.. Cassidy goes to visit him and showed him a picture of a girl saying that he was his daughter named Clementine. He even deposited all his earnings from his prison con to a bank account in her name.

SUSAN: OH RIGHT. Yes, now I remember. That makes sense that the whisper would be about her.

RACHEL: Yes and since Cassidy has helped her before. She might potentially trust her with Aaron also.

SUSAN: Interesting.. and then, why did all this make her [Kate] crazy horny for Jack and then give him the cold shoulder.

RACHEL: 'Cause when she's mad and/or upset, she jumps either Jack or Sawyer. Where do you think Aaron is?

SUSAN: That's true. I was leaning towards something a little more mystical. Like Christian showed up in the middle of the night and took him.

RACHEL: Hmm but she should know what Christian looks like at this point. So wouldn't she know that it's Jack's father and tell him? Unless Christian said something to her.

SUSAN: Which would sort of go with.. if "apparitions had appeared to the other survivors.

RACHEL: True but technically he's not a survivor. He was already dead..?

SUSAN: This is the part that makes my brain hurt.

RACHEL: Haha most of it makes my brain hurt.

5x06 316: Recap

2009-02-19T13:47:00.009-05:00

In last night's episode:

Ben, Desmond, Jack, and Sun get a quick science lesson from Mrs. Hawking in the basement of the church, who explains how a "great man" figured out a way to find where the island WILL be rather than where it IS. She used these calculations to find a position for where the island would be in 2 days, and informed them of an Ajira Airways flight from LA to Guam that would be over the island at the right point in time. She encourages them to do their best to recreate as best they can the original circumstances of the Oceanic Flight crash. She also informs Desmond the island is not finished with him yet, and, in private, tells Jack to give something of his father's (Christian Shephard) to John Locke, who has died and is being transported in the coffin in order to serve as a proxy for the body of Christian Shephard that was being transported on Oceanic 815. She also gives Jack Locke's suicide note, in an envelope addressed Jack Shephard. Jack is told again about how he has a destiny that is intertwined with the island.

After praying (?) in a pew in the church, Ben gives Jack a little history lesson about Saint Thomas, who encouraged the other apostles to follow Jesus into death, but is remembered for his doubt and need to witness the wounds of Jesus to accept that He had risen from the dead. Ben leaves Jack saying he has some unfinished business with an old friend.

Jack visits his grandfather, Ray, who has been trying to get out of the nursing home he's been living in (this obviously isn't the first time). While helping him unpack, Jack finds a pair of his father's shoes, which his grandfather lets him take.

In a rather eerie scene, Jack gets home to find Kate in his bed, obviously upset. He asks Kate about Aaron and Kate replies, "If you want me to come to the island, you will never ask me that question again." They make love, and the next morning Jack (in his puppy dog way) gets her orange juice and coffee. Before they can talk much, Ben calls Jack and Kate takes off to get ready for their trip. A bloody and battered Ben calling from a payphone tells Jack he must pick up Locke's body.

Jack travels to Simon's Butcher Shop where Locke's body is being kept in the meat locker. He replaces Locke's shoes with the shoes of his father, Christian Shephard. He also places the suicide note, unopened, into the coffin.

Jack, Kate, Sun, and Hurley buy tickets for the Ajira Airways flight to Guam (Flight 316) and board the plane. Sayid is taken aboard by a woman who appears to be a U.S. Marshall. Hurley bought 78 empty seats on the plane, so it is relatively empty. Ben arrives late, bandaged. When the pilot is announced, we learn it is none other than Frank Lapidus, the pilot that brought Widmore's crew to the island 3 years ago (in this timeline). He comes out to speak to Jack, and is informed they will not, in fact, be going to Guam. When Jack grabs a seat next to Kate on the plane, she is cold, with the choice quote: "Just because we're all on a plane together doesn't mean we're together." Jack goes back to his seat next to Ben, where Ben is reading "Ulysses". Ben convinces Jack to read Locke's suicide note, which reads "Jack - I wish you had believed me - JL". Then the plane begins lurching about, and we see the bright light and the loud hum we've come to know as the sign of time shifting.

Jack wakes up in the forest (in a VERY similar manner to the way he woke up in the first episode) with a piece of the note reading "I wish" in his fingers. He hears Hurley yelling for help and runs to the waterfall, where Hurley is in the water. Jack dives in to help him, who is staying afloat on a guitar case very reminiscent of Charlie's. The pair swim to an unconscious Kate, who wakes up wondering what happened. None of the three remember crashing, just turbulence and a flash of light. A new-looking VW van (that we've seen before, except much older and beat up) drives up, and a man steps out and points a shot-gun (the make of which we've also seen before) at the three. The trio recognize the man as Jin, who is wearing a Dharma Initiative jumper.

Written by Susan !
Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x05 This Place Is Death: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-02-13T13:12:00.018-05:00

RACHEL: So, shall we officially recap and attempt topics?

SUSAN: Okay! Let's throw out topic points.

SUSAN: Smokey, Locke, Jack's Father, Sun & her definitely alive baby.

RACHEL: Faraday & Charlotte, Eloise Hawking, and what's happening in the present (off the island).

SUSAN: Hooray for the return of smokey!

RACHEL: Yes! Which is apparently just a security system? If that French guy wasn't lying.

SUSAN: Maybe it is, but it turns people into its police? Didn't Ben refer to it as a security system once?

RACHEL: You're right, I think he has. So one thing answered - smokey is a security system that lives underneath a temple.

SUSAN: We haven't seen that before right? Could that be the temple Richard's Others went to?

RACHEL: I think it could be? That would make sense if their security system is there and they wanted to hide somewhere safe.

SUSAN: Yes, and it would imply that smokey lives outside of time since the temple presumably is immune to the time shifts.

RACHEL: I don't the temple is necessarily immune to the time shifts. Because Richard and the (original?) Others don't seem affected by the time shifts. Or at least we're not seeing that they are. And the last time we smokey was towards the end of last season. Ben sent them after Keamy and his men after they killed Alex. Ben ran into some hidden room in his house, went behind an old looking door with hieroglyphics and sent it after them somehow.

SUSAN: Was the door leading into the temple? Because... in the past his house wouldn't have existed. No.. that's wrong because the houses were there for Dharma. So that implies there are two places on the island with Egyptian influence.

RACHEL: Yes? Or that smokey resides underneath the temple but there are other places where it can be summoned.

SUSAN: Part of me really wishes Jin had gone down so we could see the origins of smokey.

RACHEL: I don't think that's the last we'll see of smokey. (Hopefully) they'll explain more later.

SUSAN: LOL, hopefully but this leads me to my issue with Lost once again violating their own time travel rules. Previously, we were lead to believe people don't have memories of things the time travelers do until they do them in the main timeline. So Desmond didn't "remember" Faraday knocking on the door until Faraday did so in the main timeline even though it was in the past. And that's why we could believe Rousseau didn't remember Jin because technically it hadn't happened yet. But Charlotte remembered Faraday telling her not to go back to the island even though that hasn't happened yet in the main timeline.

RACHEL: Unless, she was able to remember because her mind was jumping to different times in her life during the flashes which hasn't happened to the others yet. We only saw that with Minkowski and Desmond.

SUSAN: Did they ever go to the future? But that would be the past.. but the not quite past.

RACHEL: No, they kept going to the past. Well if she was a little girl when Faraday told her that, then it would be her past?

SUSAN: But it hasn't really happened which violates the rule -- I'm getting myself confused.

RACHEL: Hah, yeah I'm getting confused too. At this point, I'm trying not to question the rules too much. Plus.. Faraday did say that even if you try to change the past, you can't? That things will always course correct itself. Not sure how that applies here but it seems important.

SUSAN: Maybe that's why Alex had to die? Because Jin interfered and stopped Rousseau from entering smokey's cave.

RACHEL: Oh wow, I didn't think of that!

SUSAN: Oh, but here's a question. When Desmond was traversing time he still had his "present" mind right? He was aware of all the things he had become aware of after the time in the past. So, his body was different but his mind was in fact traveling through time. So if he was skipping time in 2005, and he learned calculus in 2003, and jumped through time to 2000 -- he would still know calculus during that time jump in 2000 even though he didn't learn it until 2003 in that timeline. So.. where I'm going with this.

RACHEL: Yes, where are you going with this lol.

SUSAN: Charlotte skips time before she dies and is going to encounter Faraday when she is a child. But she should recognize him during that time jump because it won't be child Charlotte. It will be adult Charlotte's mind in child Charlotte's body.

RACHEL: I don't think she met him with her adult mind. I think Faraday as an adult time traveled to seek out child Charlotte.

SUSAN: But if she is now time jumping, shouldn't she carry her adult mind to her past?

RACHEL: Oh you're thinking she just remembered Faraday at that moment because her mind jumped to that time before she died?

SUSAN: Yes. Ideally, for me, we're going to hear her say "but I'm not supposed to have chocolate before dinner" as a child when Faraday is there. Bringing it full circle.

RACHEL: Also, if he does that in order to save her, shouldn't he already know that won't work? It's one of this own rules - that you can't change that's supposed to happen.

SUSAN: And why would he bother if he already knows it won't work. Because she told him she even remembered him and she seemed to have multiple memories of him, didn't she? Like she talked about how there was this man that scared her.

RACHEL: Right, which implies she's encountered him a few times as a child; not just once. But have any of the flashes so far been that long? As in more than a day.

SUSAN: Definitely no. Also, why do they only move to the past? You know, there is another place with Egyptian symbols - the Hatch. Sorry that's off topic.

RACHEL: I had a possibly silly thought - maybe it has to do with that wheel and the direction it's pushed in. If that does control the time traveling. And yeah, that's right - when the numbers all went red (we saw hieroglyphics).

SUSAN: So Ben moved it back and time when back but then how do they get to Dharma years?

RACHEL: Right but that also brings up something that Christian said about the wheel being off its axis. Is that why they're skipping time?

SUSAN: So Locke reset it and now they don't skip time?

RACHEL: It's a possibility? Which brings up yet another question. Did Ben know what he was doing? Like did he purposely move the island himself and put the wheel off its axis or did he genuinely misinterpret Jacob's instructions. Because Christian said to Locke, when has following Ben's orders ever been a good idea -- or something along those lines.

SUSAN: True but Ben seemed genuine when he was pushing the wheel. Didn't he yell out to Jacob? And there was no one around to pretend for.

RACHEL: I know! He seemed genuine to me also. He said - "I hope you're happy now Jacob". But Christian's remark seemed to imply otherwise.

SUSAN: Have Ben and Christian interacted? Because the one time Ben went to the cabin it was devoid of a figure.

RACHEL: No they haven't. And right, we just saw a shadow who was supposed to be Jacob.

SUSAN: So what if Ben's Jacob and Christian's Jacob aren't the same. What if Christian is a figment of smokey and Jacob is separate.

RACHEL: Okay here's what confused me last night. All this time, I was thinking that Christian's body was acting as a host for Jacob? Like Jacob was controlling the body and speaking through it somehow but Christian (as Jack's father) was dead-dead. But then he clearly remembers Jack. And true, maybe Christian is a figment of smokey or another type of "security".

SUSAN: What if there is a sort-of true Christian play going on here. Like father, son, spirit are all the same person which is Jacob. So Christian, Jack, and maybe smokey, are all in fact Jacob at the same time.

RACHEL: That would be interesting! I could see that .. and they do make a lot of references to faith. So if Christian, Jack and smokey are possibly all Jacob where does Claire fit into this and probably Aaron too right?

SUSAN: Uh, they are also Jacob? lol. Obviously I haven't totally thought this through.

RACHEL: Hah, it's okay. I think most of our theories come from on the spot rambling :)

SUSAN: So I was looking up Ancient Egypt while we were talking and something that had never occurred to me. We can assume the glyphs are Egyptian right but the Roman's eventually take Egypt. Bringing in Latin and Christianity.

"As a consequence, Egypt's pagan culture was continually in decline. While the native population continued to speak their language, the ability to read hieroglyphic writing slowly disappeared as the role of the Egyptian temple priests and priestesses diminished. The temples themselves were sometimes converted to churches or abandoned to the desert.[60]" (wiki).

RACHEL: The island has temples, the Others speak Latin..

SUSAN:

"After the New Kingdom, the pharaoh's role as a spiritual intermediary was de-emphasized as religious customs shifted to direct worship of the gods. As a result, priests developed a system of oracles to communicate the will of the gods directly to the people.[130] An oracle could be a statue of a god that could be asked a yes or no question, to which it would "respond" by hidden manipulations of a priest, who could also pose questions behind closed doors. Oracles became very popular for appealing legal verdicts or for justifying military actions and political decisions."

SUSAN: Yes exactly. What if the others are Romans and what if Richard is actually an ancient Egyptian. Omg - this:

"The Egyptians believed that every human being was composed of physical and spiritual parts or aspects. In addition to the body, each person had a šwt (shadow), a ba (personality or soul), a ka (life-force), and a name.[131] The heart, rather than the brain, was considered the seat of thoughts and emotions. After death, the spiritual aspects were released from the body and could move at will, but they required the physical remains (or a substitute, such as a statue) as a permanent home."

Locke's body! And Christian's body for that matter.

"The ultimate goal of the deceased was to rejoin his ka and ba and become one of the "blessed dead", living on as an akh, or "effective one". In order for this to happen, the deceased had to be judged worthy in a trial, in which the heart was weighed against a "feather of truth". If deemed worthy, the deceased could continue their existence on earth in spiritual form."

Richard? Something about this reminds me of Eko when he had to face a trial. I can't remember the wording but he basically faced smokey, and was deemed unworthy. It's eerie how well this all fits. How did we never think to read up on Egyptian culture?

[NOTE -- About an hour later, we read this on our favorite dueling analysis: "First, when I talked to Michael Emerson last week he strongly hinted that we should be keeping Egypt in mind as the show moves forward."

SUSAN: We're so on the right track! Can I just take a second to remark on our awesomeness and our absolute above-average intelligence?

RACHEL: We are pretty awesome .]

RACHEL: That does really fit! So are you thinking that Jacob's spirit or essence wants to inhabit John's body because he is worthy? Also, didn't we see Charlotte in Egypt? And she found a polar bear plus the Dharma symbol there. And, isn't that where Ben ended up after pushing the wheel?

SUSAN: Well, it would have to have been part of John first. Maybe Jacob is simply a god. The wiki says the gods were not always viewed as Benevolent. And.. yes! Presumably? So the Hatch was underworld and the donkey wheel is resurrection. Certainly seems to be more and more about Locke. All this thinking is hurting my head.

RACHEL: I know! I like don't have the energy to think about it anymore. And last night's flashes were particularly jarring. It's as if they wanted the audience to feel it too.

SUSAN: Yes, I went to bed a little paranoid I'll admit. So what's next?

RACHEL: Eloise Hawking?

SUSAN: Ah yes Eloise. So.. did Ben not know Eloise was Faraday's mother or is Eloise not, in fact, Faraday's mother.

RACHEL: I noticed that too! Maybe Ben just didn't know (which is strange)? Because even Widmore thinks Eloise is Faraday's mother and Faraday himself said she'd be able to help. And she does seem to know how to find the island.

SUSAN: Well, do we know Widmore does? We know Widmore gave Desmond an address in LA. Did he give Desmond a name? I can't remember, I must be getting old. And Faraday hasn't said her name, he just keeps saying "my mother".

RACHEL: They never said; he just handed Desmond a piece of paper which Desmond conveniently didn't read out loud. So you think they're purposely setting us up to assume she's his mom? But it really does fit and he even named his mouse after her.

SUSAN: Well, I dunno if I'm against it but I don't think its been set in stone yet.

RACHEL: True, it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be something else. I wanna learn more about her and who she is. Do you remember if Desmond seemed to recognize her? I thought he did but I'm not sure.

SUSAN: It was so quick I couldn't tell but I suspect he will. I think she'll recognize them all - she seems to know a lot.

RACHEL: And Christian told Locke to find her right? But he also implied that listening to Ben is a bad idea. Yet.. Eloise and Ben are clearly working together even though Ben is at war with Widmore. It just makes it even more confusing as to who's "good" or "bad", who's with or against Jacob, and does being with or against him determined if you're on the right or wrong side.

SUSAN: Our sides are meshing! So Ben is working for Eloise, but was also presumably following Jacob's orders. But Christian implied Jacob doesn't want Ben doing anything and if Eloise is in fact "Ellie" then she's got to have a longstanding history with Widmore. This is almost as bad as time travel.

RACHEL: Seriously, I was just thinking that. And how did Ben know or where to find Locke because Ben even said that Locke didn't go to him. And why would Locke give Ben Jin's ring?

SUSAN: Well Ben seems to have ways of finding people. Maybe Ben and Locke's meeting has something to do with Locke's dying. So maybe Locke does tell Ben to give the ring to Sun. In fact, Ben may even believe Jin is dead.

RACHEL: True, that's a possibility. I had a thought.. does Ji Yeon (Sun & Jin's daughter) have to come with her to the island? Because.. in a way, she left too.

SUSAN: Good question. Eloise sort of took a "good enough" approach when she saw they weren't all there. So I wonder what that means -- is it not an all or nothing thing? And what about Walt? Walt doesn't get mentioned nearly enough. And he did leave the island but he had "permission". So that's different?

RACHEL: She also said it was good enough for now. So maybe she's expecting the rest of them to come. And yeah! Does Walt need to go back also? Because Locke went to see him too. And Walt had permission from Ben. Technically Ben gave permission to Kate and Sayid too for helping him escape Keamy. I don't know if permission from Ben means anything.

SUSAN: I guess we still don't really know who Ben is or how he fits in to anything. Oh but Ben just saw Desmond and he must know if Desmond is there, Penny must be nearby. She might be near death here. Next week could be a good one.

RACHEL: I didn't even think of that! I think it will be too! And we'll see Eloise's explanation of how to find the island.

SUSAN: You know, Charlotte doesn't mention what happened to her mother. She says she took her to England but the details stop.

RACHEL: Yeah, I doubt that they would just let someone with all that information about the Dharma Initiative go. They must be keeping tabs on her somehow? And who's her father. If he was left behind, did he survive the purge? Does Ben know him?

SUSAN: Or is it Ben? Would she remember?

RACHEL: If Ben genuinely doesn't know that Eloise is Faraday's mother, maybe he doesn't know Charlotte's history. And if she was old enough to remember the island, she'd probably be old enough to remember what her father looked like.

SUSAN: Just checked in with Doc Jensen's commentary. It seems Charlotte already revealed on a past episode that her father's name was "David Lewis".

RACHEL: I don't remember that at all. I'm checking Lostpedia -- "According to information provided by Ben, Charlotte Staples Lewis was born on July 2, 1979 in Essex, England to parents David and Jeannette and was raised in Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England along with two younger sisters ("Confirmed Dead")."

SUSAN: Oh well then.

RACHEL: Yeah, now I remember.

SUSAN: Today was too busy [at work]. I feel like we didn't even discuss enough.

RACHEL: I know! I feel like there wasn't too much to discuss though. The episode was good, but it felt like they were really setting us up for the next episode.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x04 The Little Prince: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-02-05T21:21:00.016-05:00

SUSAN: So.. what did you think?

RACHEL: I thought it was good! The parts that I liked most was seeing Rousseau and of course Jin! I knew he was alive! Though they're really going to have to explain the Jin thing and if/how he's been time traveling with the rest of them. But I like that we're finally (I hope) going to see Rousseau's story. What about you?

SUSAN: I was disappointed. I thought it was a little predictable, and I was kind of hoping Jin would stay dead. 'Cause really, how did he survive that? And can no one die now? I feel like they're setting us up for something though.

RACHEL: I just had a thought. What if he didn't die because the island wouldn't let him die? Like how the island wouldn't let Michael die before he completed whatever he needed to do first. And I agree, I do think that they're setting us up for something. I see what you're saying about the episode though. The first half which was mostly about Kate - I wasn't too interested in. But I'm usually not interested in her story. But I thought the latter half picked up with the other reveals.

SUSAN: Hmm.. Yes, what's with all the sappy moments? "I've always been with you"? And Sawyer tearing up seeing Kate. Those two aren't the sappy ones.

RACHEL: Right and how she couldn't bear to lose Aaron after losing so much? She barely spent any time with the baby even on the island. Now suddenly she couldn't bear to part with him. I was thinking that also. I think it's pretty obvious that Sawyer loves Kate. They don't really need to remind us every 10 seconds.

SUSAN: Yes! It's being so overplayed and all I can think is how we've seen this before. Juliet had to be the second choice. Do you trust her? I still feel as though we don't know her whole story.

RACHEL: I think they're just trying to keep the Jack-Kate-Sawyer love triangle going. And, I like Juliet's character. I'm not sure if I trust her. And I don't think we do either (know her whole story). Because Faraday made that comment that you might get nosebleeds if you've been to the island before. First with Charlotte, then he somewhat implied it with Miles. So, maybe Juliet too..?

SUSAN: Well she's also been there longer. Because he spoke about exposure time. But if we're meant to believe that - that means Charlotte was on the island longer than Juliet. And Juliet had been there years before the crash. So Charlotte didn't leave until she was at least a toddler.

RACHEL: What about Miles?

SUSAN: I guess he left slightly earlier?

RACHEL: Now I'm thinking he might be Dr. Chang's baby and therefore possibly born on the island too.

SUSAN: I think they basically told us that last night. But if Charlotte remembers being born on the island, she must have been there until she was old enough to have memories and if Miles doesn't, he must have left when he was very young.

RACHEL: What do you think of Ben in this episode? He seems to be behind everything.

SUSAN: Well, I was admittedly sad the Sun/Aaron theory didn't work out. I'll just say - I love Ben, he's a great character but, I want to be done with it. I get it, he's behind everything and won't tell anyone the truth, etc. I feel like his character is losing depth. Where do you stand on Ben?

RACHEL: I want to know more about his motives. Because he's obviously been in this war with Widmore even before Alex was killed, so that can't be his only motivation. And I want to know why he needs them to go back to the island. Or rather how does them going back to the island benefit him. And who is really the bad guy? Him or Widmore?

SUSAN: I tend to lean towards Ben being the good guy. Although its a bit like comparing Locke and Jack isn't it? I think Ben = Locke. They both do what needs to be done, even if its not exactly PC.

RACHEL: I do too. Which makes his actions even more confusing. And I never thought of it that way but yes it is.

SUSAN: Who do you think was in the long boat chasing them with the guns?

RACHEL: I think they might've been sent by Widmore. Maybe he was able to find the island.

SUSAN: So you think that was the future?

RACHEL: I think so. Because their camp was there.. but just abandoned.

SUSAN: Was their camp there? Damn I missed that.

RACHEL: Yeah it was. Remember Sawyer mentioned that he wanted Dharma beer, heh.

SUSAN: lol - I think I inserted a time jump in my head that never happened. We're gonna have to make a timeline to keep up with this.

RACHEL: Or write one of your detailed recaps.

SUSAN: Hee. I actually just looked up the wiki synopsis so I could get my timeline straight. It was so much easier with flashbacks!

RACHEL: Hah I know! Do we have anything else to discuss about the episode?

SUSAN: Okay, let's go chronological. Kate and Jack are on the boat. Jack entices her to help him lie and she has her incredibly cheesy line "I've always been with you." Is that supposed to be more loaded? And I'm just distracted by the awfulness.

RACHEL: I think it could be. Like maybe she will agree to back to the island with him if that's what he really wants or thinks is best. At least we know why Aaron ended up with Kate. 'Cause I wondered why they didn't leave him with Penny & Desmond. But.. now we know.

SUSAN: Do you think Kate and Jack have been together in other gaps of time. "Always" seems to have different connotations now in this time-skipping world. Or maybe I want it to mean something to detract from the cheesiness.

RACHEL: Haha possibly - so, what happened after that.

SUSAN: Okay, Kate is with Sun. We learn Sun reccommended she meet with the lawyer. So Kate leaves Aaron with Sun. Sun gets the package with the pictures of Jack and Ben and a gun. The gun happens to be hidden in a Godiva box by the way. Even though I didn't see the name on it. It was definitely the distinctive gold Godiva box and I don't appreciate high end chocolate being used for weapons trafficking. They could have at least used Russell-Stover.

RACHEL: LOL, it was definitely Godiva.

SUSAN: So, anyway. Kate goes to the lawyer and tries to get him to agree to have his client meet with her believing she has leverage. The lawyer says he is meeting his client that day, but his client will definitely say no. So she follows him with Jack, who "had to see her." Kate seems to elicit this puppydog effect in men. The lawyer goes to see Claire's mother. Jack goes in, finds out she's only there to sue Oceanic, not to get custody of Aaron - who she doesn't seem to know about. I thought this scene was a little unneccessary.

RACHEL: Oh! I have a question about that. Does Kate realize that Jack is Aaron's uncle?

SUSAN: I don't think so? As far as I can tell, no one should know. But I think Ben knows.

RACHEL: I don't think so either. Ben knows everything -- but I don't see why Jack needs to keep that from Kate. Do you think that has to be a secret?

SUSAN: I can't see the purpose of him not telling Kate. There are more complications here they aren't telling us. Because we know Claire doesn't want him to go back to the island or... ghostly appearance of Claire.

RACHEL: Speaking of Claire.. is she even a part of this season?

SUSAN: I've read she is under a holding contract. She's going to be a regular in season 6 but it was vague about season 5. You know, I think we need to rewatch the episode when she gets taken because I was just looking it up and it notes how Miles kept staring at her strangely.

RACHEL: I remember reading that some people thought that maybe she died when her house was bombed during the freighter people attack.

SUSAN: Okay... we're gonna have to come back to this one. So Kate and Jack follow the lawyer who takes them to Ben, who admits to hiring the lawyer. Meanwhile Jack had treated Sayid at the hospital and when Jack gets called out of the room, Sayid is attacked by someone pretending to be an orderly hired by....Widmore?

RACHEL: I think he was hired by Widmore.

SUSAN: Sayid escapes because he is friggin awesome.

RACHEL: Yes! It made me think of Hurley's recent description of him - his friend that has "this double-life where he does crazy ninja moves and spy stuff." So as Sayid escapes, Ben and Jack come into the room. And we know that Jack goes to find Kate while Sayid and Ben go off on their own.

SUSAN: I really enjoyed Sayid taking the keys from Ben.

RACHEL: Same here.

SUSAN: Oh and they get the call from Hurley. Gotta love Hurley in prison. Nice orange jumpsuit. But we find out from the lawyer Hurley won't be in prison long. And then they all meet on the pier and Sun shows up ready to kill Ben. I think that covers mainland, right?

RACHEL: Yup!

SUSAN: So.. the island. Charlotte comes out of her coma thing. Will the island let her die? If she was born there?

RACHEL: I don't know.. I guess it depends on the island? Because the island "let" Boone, Shannon, Eko, etc. die.

SUSAN: I'm still confused as to where that is going. So they time jump to the night Boone died and Aaron was born. Locke sees the light from the hatch that turned out to be Desmond and Sawyer watches Kate deliver Aaron in a horribly cheesy (especially for Sawyer) moment.

RACHEL: That does bring up another question.. will they interact with their past selves? or past Jack, Kate, Sun..? Can they interact with them? or is that against "the rules"?

SUSAN: I got the impression that's why Locke didn't want to tell them when they were, lest they interact with themselves. Okay so now they're still on that day and they get to the beach where they find canoes. And we're not really meant to know who they belong to? I'm assuming Others.

RACHEL: Or people sent by Widmore.

SUSAN: You think he found them that quickly?

RACHEL: Maybe? I guess it depends on how far into the future they are. But then they go back to the past during Rousseau's time.

SUSAN: So, if we're in the future the canoe people could be the Oceanic "survivors". Here is a good question - the other boat people are chasing sawyer and such and then there is a time shift. So... the other boat people just see all of them disappear and lose their boat?

RACHEL: I've been wondering that too. Because a lot of people have been seeing them disappear. But i actually expected them to be in the water WITHOUT the boat. I was surprised to see it there.

SUSAN: Yes, I thought that too. But Sawyer had that shirt that he didn't have the first time they jumped. So I guess if they're touching it.

RACHEL: Oh! and John was able to bring the compass with him through time jumps.

SUSAN: Yes, not that any of this makes sense, lol.

RACHEL: We need a list of time traveling rules, heh.

SUSAN: They seem to break their own rules a lot.

RACHEL: Unless they're more guidelines than rules.

SUSAN: So here's an interesting point. Say, one of them gets in a fight and they're touching someone from a certain time period during a jump. Does the person then come with them? Also, somewhat unrelated - Ben wants them to all go back to the island but Jacob (if we're assuming Jacob has control of Claire) wants Aaron not to go back to the island. But shouldn't Ben be following Jacob's orders?

RACHEL: That is an interesting point. And that's true too. Unless Ben isn't following Jacob's orders anymore. Since technically it was Jacob's orders that Ben leave the island and John take over. But Ben is trying to get back.. because that's what HE wants.

SUSAN: Has he found a way of usurping power?

RACHEL: I don't know. But if anyone can, I'm sure it would be Ben.

SUSAN: Definitely.

RACHEL: I just thought of something else - so is Widmore against Jacob also?

SUSAN: He must be? If he wants to get back to the island without permission.

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Possibly spoiler-y, read our theorizing below at your own risk!

GENERAL SPECULATION
SUSAN: I read an interesting point that we will see Jack's grandfather this season.

RACHEL: You think maybe their family has a past with the island as well?

SUSAN: I feel like it's getting there. I mean, they haven't exactly been shying about creating these strong family ties leading to Jack. I wouldn't be surprised if they used it.

RACHEL: Right and the two people that Jacob seems to have control of are related to Jack.

SUSAN: Hmm also true. Jack.. Jacob.. very similar eh? I like where we're going with this. So, is Jack Jacob or is Jacob an ancestor of Jack? And (omg) - Is that why the actor that plays Jack is the only one who knows how the series ends? Because it ends at Jacob.

RACHEL: Omg! I like the idea of Jack being Jacob or Jacob being Jack.

SUSAN: I really think we have something here - it all fits.

RACHEL: It does! So maybe Jacob is Jack's future (far in the future) self? or past self? Jack does like to be in control and to fix things.

SUSAN: Very true. So, what if, when he gets back to the island he's exposed to the radiation source and becomes Jacob or something, lol.

RACHEL: Heh, that too! But it definitely seems like Jack and Jacob are connected somehow. Or are the same person

SUSAN: Which could be why Jack has never had any sort of interaction with Jacob

RACHEL: Maybe you can't interact with past/future versions of yourself.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

5x04 The Little Prince: Recap

2009-02-05T20:54:00.001-05:00

In this week's episode:

We see Kate and Jack on Desmond's boat, just after they left the island. Kate petitions to lie and say Aaron is her son, because she can't bear to lose anyone else to an uncertain fate. Jack asks Kate to be "with him" when he asks the Oceanic 6 to lie about what happened on the island. She replies, "I've always been with you".
On the mainland, present-day, Kate and Aaron are with Sun in her hotel room. Kate leaves Aaron with Sun and goes to visit the lawyer, on Sun's advice. She attempts to get the lawyer to arrange a meeting between her and his client, which he deems unlikely to happen. Kate decides to follow him as he goes to visit his client.
Meanwhile Sun receives a package, and leaves Aaron alone to open it. It contains photos linking Ben and Jack, and a gun hidden in a Godiva box.
Jack has finished treating Sayid, and gets called out of the room. A man comes in posing as a nurse, and tries to shoot Sayid with darts. Sayid overpowers him, and finds Kate's address in his wallet. Jack receives a call from Hurley in prison. When Jack and Ben find Sayid, Jack decides Kate is in danger and goes to her, Ben and Sayid head for the docks, where Ben has asked everyone to meet.
Jack gets into Kate's car as she tails the lawyer, first to a hotel. The lawyer is there to meet with Claire's mother. Thinking this is the client that wants Aaron, Jack goes in to talk to her, only to find out she is there because she is suing Oceanic and is not aware of Aaron. Kate and Jack ask Sun to bring Aaron to the docks and continue to tail the lawyer, which leads them to the docks with everyone else. This is where Kate discovers Ben hired the lawyer to prove her lack of biological connection to Aaron. We leave the mainland with all of the "survivors" besides Hurley at the docks, and Sun wielding her gun, looking angry.
On the island, Charlotte wakes up from her time-faint. At first she does not recognize Faraday. After that initial memory lapse she seems to be fine aside from occasional headache complaints. The group, led by Locke, heads for the Orchid, which Locke believes is where he will find a way to get off the island. Along the way they see a light, which we know is from the hatch the night Boone died and Locke was very upset. They also hear screaming. Investigating, Sawyer sees Kate delivering Aaron. His eyes are teary when there is another flash and they are transported to an unknown time.
They trek to the beach, hoping to sail around the island to the Orchid. During the trek Miles gets a nosebleed. Faraday theorizes the longer people have been exposed to the island, the sooner they develop time sickness. Miles does not believe he has been to the island before, but it's hinted he may have spent more time on the island. When they reach the beach they find a water bottle from Ajira Airways, two canoes, and the remnants of their camp. They take one of the canoes and head out to sea. Shortly thereafter we see another group in the other canoe paddling after them, firing at them. Juliet shoots back at their pursuers, and then there is another flash.
Still in the canoe, but now in a storm, the island group heads back to land. Once on the beach, Sawyer has a heart to heart conversation with Juliet about seeing Kate in the earlier time jump and his feelings for her. Juliet gets a nosebleed.
We see a man laying on driftwood at sea. A group of French-speaking people in a raft come upon him and help him into the raft, and we see it is Jin, alive and well. The group reaches the shore and gives Jin some water. A young pregnant woman introduces herself as Danielle Rousseau.

Written by Susan!
Pictures courtesy of: sl-lost.com

5x03 Jughead: Recap

2009-02-02T09:37:00.003-05:00

In this episode:

We witness Penny giving birth to her and Desmond's son, Charlie. A few years later, the family of three travels to England so Desmond can find Faraday's mother at Oxford. There he discovers the university has tried to break all affiliations with Faraday because of "what he did to that girl". We see the girl in a hospital bed being cared for by her sister with money from Charles Widmore. The girl appears to have no concept of what place in time she is in. Desmond meets with Widmore, who is very concerned with keeping Penny safe, and gives him an address in LA for Faraday's mother.
Our time jumping losties are still on the island skipping through time. Separated after the flaming-arrow-frogurt incident, they had planned to meet up at the creek. Locke, Sawyer, and Juliet run into a couple of soldier-looking characters with guns. They overtake the soldiers, Locke makes note of the guns. The characters start talking to each other in Latin, which Juliet understands and speaks to them. It becomes known that Latin 101 is required for all Others, which makes these two Others. When Richard Alpert's name is mentioned, one of the soldiers is about to disclose the location of the camp, but the other "Other" kills him and runs. Locke has a clear shot but refuses to take it because "He is one of my people". Locke tracks the runaway other to their camp.
Miles, Faraday and Charlotte arrive at the creek and find themselves without company. A couple of random accompanying losties walk closer to the creek, where Miles realizes too late there is a trip wire attached to mines. The random losties trip the mine and are presumably killed in the blast. Miles, Faraday and Charlotte are captured by people we now know to be Others. The leader of this group is named Ellie. The Others believe our losties to be American military, and take them to their camp. En route, Miles notes they just walked over a fresh grave containing 4 American soldiers, 3 of which died of radiation poisoning and 1 who was shot. At the camp, Faraday notes the Others have a problem with an H-bomb and offers to help, saying they are American military scientists. To gain trust, he admits his love for Charlotte before leaving to work on the bomb.
Faraday is led at gunpoint by Ellie to the bomb. Locke, Juliet, and Sawyer see this from a hill. Locke chooses to go to the camp, while Juliet and Sawyer go to save Faraday from what they assume to be certain death. When Locke reaches the camp he is held at gunpoint by the Other he refused to shoot earlier. We learn his name is Charles Widmore. Locke meets with Richard Alpert, who does not recognize him. He tells him he will be born in 2 years, and gives him the compass to help him remember. Locke tries to get Richard to tell him how to get off the island.
Faraday discovers a leak on the bomb, and tells Ellie to cover the leak with lead and bury it, covering it with lead and/or concrete. He also says Ellie looks familiar. Just after he admits being from the future, Sawyer and Juliet step in and take control of the situation. Then we skip time again, keeping Locke from learning how to get off the island. Charlotte, who has been showing signs of time sickness, has a bloody nose and a seizure shortly after the skip.

Written by Susan :)

5x03 Jughead: Ginger Ale Talk

2009-01-30T19:46:00.008-05:00

RACHEL: Ready to discuss Lost? :)

SUSAN: Omg yes. So - we need a list of topics.

RACHEL: Well.. the episode was basically divided between .. Miles Charlotte and Faraday .. Sawyer Juliet and Locke (or should Locke & Richard be their own thing?).. and then Desmond Penny and Charles Widmore.

SUSAN: That works. So Faraday and Charlotte’s true relationship - what are you feeling?

RACHEL: I think there’s definitely something romantic there. Charlotte seemed happy by Faraday’s reveal.. but I think Faraday knows more about her past and why she’s getting those side effects than he’s letting on. I think he knows exactly why she’s getting nosebleeds.

SUSAN: I really like the Luke and Leia theory. And they’re actually brother and sister. I’m not feeling the chemistry between them. In my view, he seems to take more of a big brother must protect little sis attitude.

RACHEL: Yeah I don’t see them together either but they just seem into one another. Or at least that’s what they’re being portrayed as. So you think he just said he’s in love with her to protect her? But really, he just loves her.

SUSAN: It could also be because I’m in love with Faraday. Did he say “in” love?

RACHEL: It’s okay, I’m a little in love with him too! I’m pretty sure he did. He told Richard that he’s in love with the woman sitting next to him.

SUSAN: I was reading boards earlier and they were saying he hadn’t. As for the nosebleeds …

RACHEL: I was reading some forums earlier too and someone suggested that she’s getting nosebleeds and losing memories because her timeline is changing .. so her memories are trying to merge together.

SUSAN: But I thought we established them as part of time sickness, like the people on the boat had. I think we’re already supposed to know what she has because we’ve seen it before. But she was never on the boat. What’s different, I think, is that she doesn’t appear to be jumping on her own. And if it’s because they all keep jumping ..

RACHEL: What do you mean?

SUSAN: Like on the boat with Desmond. He was jumping through time and that other guy. But she’s jumping with everyone else. But why aren’t they sick?

RACHEL: I see what you’re saying! And no one else seems affected.

SUSAN: Yes. We know Locke is special and Faraday is special.

RACHEL: And Desmond is special.

SUSAN: But Sawyer, Juliet and Miles should have the same problem for that matter.

RACHEL: That’s why I think her sickness might be different and that the memories / new timeline idea could fit. Maybe all the time jumping is changing things that happened on the island. And if she’s from the island.. then in turn possibly changing her life on the island as she knew it (or in her case, doesn’t seem to remember it). Because Faraday telling that girl Ellie that he’s from the future and that the island is still there 50 years from now and burying that bomb? Couldn’t that change the future? By giving that girl new knowledge, isn’t that a change? And, was the bomb really supposed to be buried in order for the island to still be there 50 years later or was something else done originally.

SUSAN: See, here is where I lose it. Because, Faraday said you can’t change the timeline but here we are, changing the timeline.

RACHEL: Exactly! Just their very presence on the island and interacting with the people of that time.. that’s change.

SUSAN: Unless.. it’s not. And the reason they’re all so knowledgeable in the future is because they know what has happened.

RACHEL: That’s true. This sorta changes topics but that would fit with Locke telling Richard to find him when he’s born. Maybe that’s why Richard went in the first place. Because Locke told him to.

SUSAN: Yes. Ugh my head hurts.

RACHEL: Mine too.

SUSAN: Okay so, sticking with Faraday ..

RACHEL: Right.. so you know that girl Ellie who was with Faraday?

SUSAN: I was just gonna say… Eloise.

RACHEL: Yes! Ellie.. short for Eloise Hawking .. who may be his mother. Eloise is also the name of his time traveling rat.

SUSAN: And that’s why she looks familiar.

RACHEL: If Ellie/Eloise is Faraday’s mother and she was on the island at the same time as Widmore who happened to fund Faraday’s research.. Could they be his parents?

SUSAN: That’s what I’ve heard on the boards but I’m sort of reluctant to attach Widmore to Faraday as a father. I don’t know why. I think it might be more complicated than that because Faraday and Penny shouldn’t be very far apart in age difference. And when Ben was threatening to kill Widmore’s child, he only mentioned Penny. So he either didn’t care about Faraday or didn’t know. And I find it doubtful he didn’t know.

RACHEL: That’s true. Unless Faraday and Penny only share a father but have different mothers. Like Jack and Claire.

SUSAN: Hmm that’s possible. It IS interesting that they kept Faraday and young Widmore apart for the whole piece.

RACHEL: Oh wow, I didn’t even notice that! Actually another theory I had before thinking Ellie was Eloise.. I was thinking maybe she was Charlotte’s mom.

SUSAN: Hmm also possible. I think that’s where I was going with the siblings thing. Because Charlotte we know is born on the island.

RACHEL: Another thing, when we talked about how maybe they aren’t changing the timeline. I was reading this on the boards.. remember the episode dedicated to the Freighter people storylines? And Faraday was crying for some reason when he saw the news report about finding the Flight 815 airplane at the bottom of some ocean but he didn’t know why he was crying. Maybe he was crying then because his future self does something in the past during the time jumps.

SUSAN: So maybe he’s crying because Charlotte dies?

RACHEL: That’s one possibility

SUSAN: If she dies in the past, say in a 1950 jump, and then it jumps back to 1996 ..

RACHEL: If she dies in the past, what happens to their future? Does that mean, she never goes to the island with the freighter?

SUSAN: Does her dead body keep jumping around?

RACHEL: Oh! And what about all the redshirts (Note: A redshirt is a type of stock character in film or television that is a non-featured character, whose purpose to the plot, usually, is to be killed. Ex - Neil Frogurt) that have been killed off during these time jumps. If they die in the past .. do they stop existing? Or what if they die in a time that’s before when they were actually born?

SUSAN: I feel like that’s okay. It doesn’t effect their timeline because in THEIR timeline they lived to a certain age. I think its sort of relativistic. So, they’re still aging, and going on a line. Or, a string. Then they each have their string and the island has its string. So the island is jumping but they still lived their string in continuity. But.. if you kill a person’s parents before they’re born, I imagine that would have a different effect? Unless you’re jumping between multiple universes.

RACHEL: My brain hurts, lol. But I see what you’re saying. It’s just.. if the island is existing in this different universe.. or well it does seem to exist on its own timeline that’s separate from the “real world”.. is anyone REALLY dead. I mean is that why Locke seems dead but Ben’s actions seem to imply that he’s not truly dead.

SUSAN: And why, if he is preserved by the nature of the timeline, do they need to protect his body? Because if he’s not dead, then he should still be alive no matter what they do? And the whole 70 hours thing. That means their timeline is still moving. So when they make these jumps, the time spent in each jump matters because the rest of the world is still moving at the same pace. So.. does that make them more like “ghosts”? Because they are viewing the timeline without any rights to change it. And also, here is what I’m starting to see. When things are changed now, they change the main timeline future. So maybe that’s all you can change. If has not happened yet in the timeline that they and the rest of the world are following then it can “change” because it hasn’t happened yet.

RACHEL: About John’s body - I think they have to protect it in the sense that they don’t lose his body? Or that his body doesn’t lose any limbs? Like maybe he has to be intact for the island to bring him back to life? Cause I’m assuming that’s what will happen. Or maybe Jacob will inhabit his body in the way it’s currently inhabiting Christian’s body?

SUSAN: So maybe.. wait no.. do.. Locke.. is dead. Gaaah.

RACHEL: Yes? At least dead in the real world.

SUSAN: Jack’s father didn’t come back to life right? That’s Jacob possesing him?

RACHEL: I think but I just had a thought. What if he’s alive on the island because if on the island it’s like 1990-something instead of 2005 .. then in the real world he was alive during the 1990s. Does that make sense?

SUSAN: Omg. So. What. I’m so confused, lol.

RACHEL: Heh I don’t know. Same here.

SUSAN: Dammit and I studied physics. That should be useful for SOMETHING.

RACHEL: It gives you something in common with Faraday! :) Oh! So that theory my boss has - he thinks that Richard Alpert has 4 toes!

SUSAN: I like that. I was hoping someone would have 4 toes. Speaking of - the bomb. You think that’s the toed concrete thing?

RACHEL: I was thinking that maybe it was underneath the hatch or the Swan or one of their stations.

SUSAN: I thought of that but the positioning of it seemed to fit with the toes.

RACHEL: I like the idea of it being underneath that.. or just somewhere unknown in general. I think the bomb is gonna play a part later on.

SUSAN: It must. I think it’s powerful enough to destroy the island. This site makes a good point - the theory is: young Widmore meets Locke on the island. So, does he then wake up remembering him or does he just remember because it already happened in his timeline.

RACHEL: Maybe Widmore would remember him if he saw him? Because I don’t think he’s ever seen or met Locke in the real world. Maybe that’s why he had to use a different name (Jeremy Bentham). I think so far he’s only met Sun.

SUSAN: Wow, good point.

RACHEL: So.. now that we know that Widmore is an Other. Do you think that’s why he says that Ben stole everything from him? Maybe Widmore was supposed to be their leader until Ben came along. But what about that special process that Richard mentioned about selecting their leader. Does that mean Widmore is special somehow too?

SUSAN: That’s the impression I got too. He didn’t seem special.

RACHEL: He didn’t seem special to me either. He just seemed ruthless and willing to protect the others’ camp at any cost.

SUSAN: Exactly. Although I guess that’s how Locke kind of is.

RACHEL: That’s true. Did you think it was strange that Locke wouldn’t shoot him because he claimed that it’s one of his people? And then it turns out to be Widmore.

SUSAN: Maybe that’s because he can’t die, because he exists in the future.

RACHEL: Or maybe the island’s not done with him yet? Remember what you said earlier about how maybe the reason why they’re so knowledgeable about the past is because they know what has happened. I wonder.. is that why Ben was so shocked when Keamy killed Alex? And why he later went to Widmore telling him that he changed the rules. The phrase “the rules” is mentioned a lot.

SUSAN: So you think Alex was supposed to live?

RACHEL: Maybe? I kinda have this feeling that Ben will eventually get to Penny though.

SUSAN: Yeah, there’s definitely some doom ahead there.

Pictures courtesy of: Lost-Media.com

Welcome to Dharma Ginger Ale!

2009-01-30T11:26:00.000-05:00

Hello, we're Susan and Rachel. We've been having our ginger ale talks (a spirited and comforting discussion between girlfriends that may or may not involve ginger ale) for nearly 12 years. And a few years ago we also discovered that we had the same secret passion - LOST. We were both a little late to the game and had to do some frantic DVD watching to catch up. But it was well worth it. Soon after, we started having weekly conversations discussing episodes and exchanging theories. We realized our discussions were so well thought out, other people deserved a glance at our theories. That realization has now led to the blog that you see here, Dharma Ginger Ale. A blog soon to be filled with episode recaps, discussions (entitled "Ginger Ale Talks") and our ever-growing list of theories. We hope you enjoy!